… a throwdown 1 ……
Alright. Enough already of your shallow-headed giving the LU-UH-V to Obama. The Obamessiah. Like he’s somekind of wondrous miracle come to deliver the horrendously oppressed from some otherworldly VRWC sloth. Trouble is – you aren’t oppressed. It disappoints me that you guys – w/ all your talent for something as marvelous as music, are also blunderers & lubberly w/ who you associate w/ politically. Down-the-road, lots of the younger generation are going to get older & wiser. And if the Obamoid gets elected, they will hold it against your legacy when they remember you were connected w/ the disasters heaped on America by the likes of BO & `DamascusNancy’. What I’m saying is – you guys are elitists. You are millionaires. Multi-millionaires. You oughta know better. You lost in 2004 because you ran the wrong guy. Go ahead! Go ahead & delude yourself & say he got `swiftboated’. He was the wrong guy. You lost in 2000 because you ran the wrong guy. Go ahead. Go ahead & delude yourself that theVRWC stole the election. And here in 2008, & you’re gonna do it again! —- Your real problem is, your worldview is fucked!!!
In the Fri15Feb08 WSJ, DanielHenninger analyzed Obama’s standard-stump speech. “Strip away the new coat of paint from the Obama message and what you find is not only familiar. It’s a downer. .. Up to now, the force of Obama’s physical presentation has so dazzled audiences that it has been hard to focus on what he is saying. .. Unhinge yourself from the mesmerizing voice. What one hears is a message that is largely negative, illustrated with anecdotes of unremitting bleakness. Heavy with class warfare, it is a speech that could have been delivered by a Democrat in 1968, or even 1928. .. I am not saying all [that Obama sez] is false. But it is a depressing message to ride all the way to the White House. Presumably this is a preview of what he intends to run with against John McCain, … At some point in the next 10 months, people will have to square Obama’s Grapes of Wrath message with the reality of their lives. .. Unease about the economy is real, but Obama is selling more than that. He is selling deep grievance over the structure of American society. Barack is selling revolution — change “from the bottom up.” [`the extra-foamy’ get a leg that tingles w/ talk like that, & so do the shallow-skulled moonbats — but the category of indulgent & insulated elite/moonbat-types better check their discretion] … For Obama the military and national security is a world of catastrophe welded to Iraq and filled with maimed soldiers. McCain locates these same difficult subjects inside the whole of American military achievement. It nets out as a more positive message. Recall that Reagan’s signature optimism, when it first appeared, was laughed at by political pros[& indulgent elitists]. Optimism won elections. Whatever else, Barack Hussein Obama isn’t talking sunshine in America. He’s talking fast and furious. People not yet baptized into Obamania may start to look past the dazzling theatrics to see a vision of the US that is quite grim and will wear thin in the general election. There may indeed be a Message B for the fall in the Obama drawer. This week’s speech, like a televangelist’s, may be designed to drive small contributions. .. Everything in life has a top — stocks, football teams and political phenoms, as she well knows. Though down, Hillary ought to suck it up for Ohio and Texas and hope the Obama wave starts to break. On current course, it will.”
Obama supporters I know of, don’t think he’s the “messiah.” Only Republicans are talking this way.
Anyhow, what did that long assed post have to do with Nader?
As for Nader, I just wonder if the Torture Party will be financing Nader again… For me that pretty much says it all.
And boy Nader has really been working the streets to build up the Green Party the past few years, I mean there’s just so many things he’s done!! I mean surely he’s not just running for his own ego… Afterall he doesn’t just show up and demand to be the Green Party nominee every four years…
Look, the Obama candidacy is based on populist principles, so it has no grounds to complain about either Nader’s presenting himself as an option or people freely chosing him. The best way for Obama to deal with Nader is to make sure that there is no reason to vote for him, by committing himself to fighting for Nader’s causes.
Any good ideas that Ralph Nader may have had or could bring to the table are utterly insignificant compared to the utter destruction that he shares a not insignificant amount of reponsibility for.
The first rule is do no harm.
Since he’s running as a Green, that would suggest that there is an active Green Party.
Whether or not Nader’s candidacies helped “elect” W, his running for President has little to do with his own ego. He’s running so that people who feel compelled to vote their consciences have a real alternative candidate to vote for. Obama, Clinton, McCain? They are ALL heavily in debt to the corporate status quo. Look here to see how “different” they are from each other on a meaningful scale of issues. People like me, whose views put us in the lower-left quadrant of that diagram, have nobody to vote for without holding our nose. I am sick of voting for the lesser of two evils; it makes me a hypocrite in the booth and yet I’ll probably do it again this November. Obama may or may not be quiiiiite as bought & paid for as the other candidates, and he certainly has charisma, but in terms of his policy views, he’s more of damn near the same.
Unless somebody starts pushing a little bit, this potentially great country will be stuck for a long time with our current non-COnstitutional two-party (two sides of the same coin) system. Nader has chosen to do some pushing. You may or may not think it’s wise to rock the 2-party boat, but he’s not doing it for his “ego.”
I cannot share your laughter, ship of fools.
I’m sick of voting for the lesser of two evils, too. But:
– I don’t think Obama is anything like evil, and I do think the Republican Party is.
– We can’t afford to be too idealistic these days. We are on the bring of national and planetary catastrophe, and we must take whatever small steps we can right now.
… a throwdown 2 ……
“… what did that long assed post have to do with Nader?” I knew Nader’s name would draw commenters & Phil-&-Mickey-&-Bobby-&-David’s endorsement of Obama is something I couldn’t just let go-by. Thus when I had myself ready to post, I put it here. —– Nader has always been HaroldStasson w/ a hard-on for authoritarianism. A noxious fringe apparatchik. B.HusseinO. however, has a real chance. I myself, being a former lefty, know how you fringhies like to think of `root-causes’. Obama’s “change”-mantra, is bogus, concealing that his `roots’ are the same-place as Nader’s. In the long-run, that kind of Change will be anathema to the creativity & the individuality celebrated in music in general, & GD-music in particular.
—–
Though I could not caution all I yet may warn a few:
Don’t lend your hand to raise no flag
atop no ship of fools
—–
theObamer — this needs to be included: Obama is an unusually gifted speaker with the ability to reflect back whatever the listener wants to hear. If you catch any interviews of the audience after an Obama speech you will hear things like “He understands me.” “He understands what I’m thinking.”
A person with Obama’s rhetorical skills is very dangerous in a democracy. The Founders lived in a time when a classical education included rhetoric and they were versed in the rhetorician’s tricks of persuasion. The Founders chose Electors[theElectorialCollege] as a rational and dispassionate intermediary between the people and direct democracy. Every educated person in those days knew how gifted speakers like Alcibiades advanced their own ambitions at terrible cost to Athens by manipulating the emotions of the demos.
An earlier thread discussed how deeply apocalyptic-visions have been woven into our culture. Obama represents the hope of salvation from [this supposed] coming destruction. We can see how quickly the celebrity-crazed MSM has picked up on that theme by the many associations of Obama with JFK’s Camelot, MLK’s Dream, and Obama’s promise to “talk” with our enemies as if his magic voice can turn lions into lambs.
Whether Obama is a disciple of the Religion of Death or not I do not know. We do know that he has the most liberal (that is to say: neo-totalitarian) voting record in the U.S. Senate.
Maybe I’m channeling some ancient Greek bastard who got the willies listening to Alcibiades but I see an Obama presidency as a time of misery and destruction like we have never known.
I recall hearing that during the 2004 Democratic convention, The Dead had been scheduled to play at one of the parties. However, they got dis-invited, following some flap involving Whoopie Goldberg that caused the Party increased worry about its image. Now, I wouldn’t expect Obama to bring back Garcia and Pen, but Deadheads shouldn’t be feeling more welcome at Ann Coulter’s house than in the Democratic ‘big tent’.
Twice as many Democrats are voting in the primaries. McCain is just too liberal for a core right wing Republicans and they are gonna stay home in protest. Ralph Nader can’t siphon off enough votes to make a big difference. It doesn’t look like another 51-49 or 52-48 squeaker in November to me.
That Whoopie Goldberg flap was a vulgar comment she made about her hairy bush on TV, and the King George fans called the FCC…
“In the long-run, that kind of Change will be anathema to the creativity & the individuality celebrated in music in general, & GD-music in particular.”
What the hell….?
ernie, I think you are an absolutely paranoid and half insane person!
“B.HusseinO.” ???? What’s your point here? Sounds nothing but racist to me.
The play-list from `theBenefit-for-Obama’ at theWarfieldTheater on Mon-evening 4Feb, sounds like a wonderful bunch of tunes — that I hope my taper-buddy will soon burn me a copy of. Reading JBergan’s & RSimon’s reviews made me doubly-enthusiastic, except for the thought of the politics. “… absolutely paranoid and half-insane .. [and] .. racist ..”? No! What are ya, a fourteen-yrs-old? I’m in my sixties, & all of this misery-&-suffering & unremitting-bleakness meme is a canard theLeft has ALWAYS been sending up. They’ve ALWAYS pulled our chain w/ this bullshit. Even theRussian-people figured this shit out! If things are so bad, then where are theDems getting their gazillions in campaign-funds from?[Answer: not important `where’, what is important is things aren’t bad like theLeft sez.] Going w/ Obama (or Hillary or Nader/Gonzales) will prove profoundly UNWISE !!!
From the RogerLSimon-blog, a commenter remarked: The vast majority of Americans have a positive view of M L King and the civil-rights movement of the early-’60s. At the same time, the vast majority of Americans have a negative view of the defiant-rejectionism of the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, Angela Davis, Stokely Carmichael, etc.
When OJ Simpson was acquitted, and millions of Black people were celebrating because they were happy to see a Black man beat the system, it showed that this defiant-rejectionism, and the whole notion of “stickin’ it to the man”, is still very prevalent within the Black community.
Because of this, Americans are much more suspicious of Black liberal politicians than they are of White liberal politicians. This is why I think that the only way a Black person will ever become President is if they’re either a Republican or a very centrist Democrat. Someone who has been a straight-arrow throughout their whole life. Someone who served in the military. Someone who wears their patriotism on their sleeve. Someone who waits until they’ve acquired a significant amount of political experience before running for the highest office in the land. Barack Hussein Obama is none of these things.
I think his involvement in a Black separatist church will be his ultimate undoing. If he’s such a uniter who transcends race, what on earth is he doing in a Black separatist church? It makes him look like a hypocrite[what?, a liberal/leftist a hypocrite? !!!]. McCain will not be mentioning Obama’s church in any speeches or campaign ads. But if Obama wins the nomination, you can bet that the website for Obama’s church will receive tens of millions of hits from ordinary Americans who hear about it through word of mouth. They won’t like what they see. Posted by: [a commenter called]The Fop at February 23, 2008 2:04 PM
I have mixed feelings about Ralph running for President. He has the right to run. I voted for him in 2000, but if California had been as close and meaningful as Florida, I would not have voted for him. Looking at the last seven years of a diabolical GOP nightmare I wish he had not run at all. It is surprising he has the chutzpah to enter again. It appears to be a sure thing for Barack or Hillary in November, but another 9/11 or the capture of bin-Laden in September could turn literate Americans into frightened simpletons waving the flag and pounding the Bible and the GOP’s approval % skyrocket as it did after Sept. 11, 2001.
ralph does not have the equipment to fuck himself
… a throwdown 1 ……
Alright. Enough already of your shallow-headed giving the LU-UH-V to Obama. The Obamessiah. Like he’s somekind of wondrous miracle come to deliver the horrendously oppressed from some otherworldly VRWC sloth. Trouble is – you aren’t oppressed. It disappoints me that you guys – w/ all your talent for something as marvelous as music, are also blunderers & lubberly w/ who you associate w/ politically. Down-the-road, lots of the younger generation are going to get older & wiser. And if the Obamoid gets elected, they will hold it against your legacy when they remember you were connected w/ the disasters heaped on America by the likes of BO & `DamascusNancy’. What I’m saying is – you guys are elitists. You are millionaires. Multi-millionaires. You oughta know better. You lost in 2004 because you ran the wrong guy. Go ahead! Go ahead & delude yourself & say he got `swiftboated’. He was the wrong guy. You lost in 2000 because you ran the wrong guy. Go ahead. Go ahead & delude yourself that theVRWC stole the election. And here in 2008, & you’re gonna do it again! —- Your real problem is, your worldview is fucked!!!
In the Fri15Feb08 WSJ, DanielHenninger analyzed Obama’s standard-stump speech. “Strip away the new coat of paint from the Obama message and what you find is not only familiar. It’s a downer. .. Up to now, the force of Obama’s physical presentation has so dazzled audiences that it has been hard to focus on what he is saying. .. Unhinge yourself from the mesmerizing voice. What one hears is a message that is largely negative, illustrated with anecdotes of unremitting bleakness. Heavy with class warfare, it is a speech that could have been delivered by a Democrat in 1968, or even 1928. .. I am not saying all [that Obama sez] is false. But it is a depressing message to ride all the way to the White House. Presumably this is a preview of what he intends to run with against John McCain, … At some point in the next 10 months, people will have to square Obama’s Grapes of Wrath message with the reality of their lives. .. Unease about the economy is real, but Obama is selling more than that. He is selling deep grievance over the structure of American society. Barack is selling revolution — change “from the bottom up.” [`the extra-foamy’ get a leg that tingles w/ talk like that, & so do the shallow-skulled moonbats — but the category of indulgent & insulated elite/moonbat-types better check their discretion] … For Obama the military and national security is a world of catastrophe welded to Iraq and filled with maimed soldiers. McCain locates these same difficult subjects inside the whole of American military achievement. It nets out as a more positive message. Recall that Reagan’s signature optimism, when it first appeared, was laughed at by political pros[& indulgent elitists]. Optimism won elections. Whatever else, Barack Hussein Obama isn’t talking sunshine in America. He’s talking fast and furious. People not yet baptized into Obamania may start to look past the dazzling theatrics to see a vision of the US that is quite grim and will wear thin in the general election. There may indeed be a Message B for the fall in the Obama drawer. This week’s speech, like a televangelist’s, may be designed to drive small contributions. .. Everything in life has a top — stocks, football teams and political phenoms, as she well knows. Though down, Hillary ought to suck it up for Ohio and Texas and hope the Obama wave starts to break. On current course, it will.”
My goodness. I wonder if that’s contagious.
Obama supporters I know of, don’t think he’s the “messiah.” Only Republicans are talking this way.
Anyhow, what did that long assed post have to do with Nader?
As for Nader, I just wonder if the Torture Party will be financing Nader again… For me that pretty much says it all.
And boy Nader has really been working the streets to build up the Green Party the past few years, I mean there’s just so many things he’s done!! I mean surely he’s not just running for his own ego… Afterall he doesn’t just show up and demand to be the Green Party nominee every four years…
Uh…
Look, the Obama candidacy is based on populist principles, so it has no grounds to complain about either Nader’s presenting himself as an option or people freely chosing him. The best way for Obama to deal with Nader is to make sure that there is no reason to vote for him, by committing himself to fighting for Nader’s causes.
Damascus Nancy???
If I may quote myself:
Any good ideas that Ralph Nader may have had or could bring to the table are utterly insignificant compared to the utter destruction that he shares a not insignificant amount of reponsibility for.
The first rule is do no harm.
Since he’s running as a Green, that would suggest that there is an active Green Party.
They should kick him the hell out!
http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/24/various_items/permalink/fa966efafe758a9e55c1b4551e963a43.html
Whether or not Nader’s candidacies helped “elect” W, his running for President has little to do with his own ego. He’s running so that people who feel compelled to vote their consciences have a real alternative candidate to vote for. Obama, Clinton, McCain? They are ALL heavily in debt to the corporate status quo. Look here to see how “different” they are from each other on a meaningful scale of issues. People like me, whose views put us in the lower-left quadrant of that diagram, have nobody to vote for without holding our nose. I am sick of voting for the lesser of two evils; it makes me a hypocrite in the booth and yet I’ll probably do it again this November. Obama may or may not be quiiiiite as bought & paid for as the other candidates, and he certainly has charisma, but in terms of his policy views, he’s more of damn near the same.
Unless somebody starts pushing a little bit, this potentially great country will be stuck for a long time with our current non-COnstitutional two-party (two sides of the same coin) system. Nader has chosen to do some pushing. You may or may not think it’s wise to rock the 2-party boat, but he’s not doing it for his “ego.”
I cannot share your laughter, ship of fools.
I’m sick of voting for the lesser of two evils, too. But:
– I don’t think Obama is anything like evil, and I do think the Republican Party is.
– We can’t afford to be too idealistic these days. We are on the bring of national and planetary catastrophe, and we must take whatever small steps we can right now.
… a throwdown 2 ……
“… what did that long assed post have to do with Nader?” I knew Nader’s name would draw commenters & Phil-&-Mickey-&-Bobby-&-David’s endorsement of Obama is something I couldn’t just let go-by. Thus when I had myself ready to post, I put it here. —– Nader has always been HaroldStasson w/ a hard-on for authoritarianism. A noxious fringe apparatchik. B.HusseinO. however, has a real chance. I myself, being a former lefty, know how you fringhies like to think of `root-causes’. Obama’s “change”-mantra, is bogus, concealing that his `roots’ are the same-place as Nader’s. In the long-run, that kind of Change will be anathema to the creativity & the individuality celebrated in music in general, & GD-music in particular.
—–
Though I could not caution all I yet may warn a few:
Don’t lend your hand to raise no flag
atop no ship of fools
—–
theObamer — this needs to be included: Obama is an unusually gifted speaker with the ability to reflect back whatever the listener wants to hear. If you catch any interviews of the audience after an Obama speech you will hear things like “He understands me.” “He understands what I’m thinking.”
A person with Obama’s rhetorical skills is very dangerous in a democracy. The Founders lived in a time when a classical education included rhetoric and they were versed in the rhetorician’s tricks of persuasion. The Founders chose Electors[theElectorialCollege] as a rational and dispassionate intermediary between the people and direct democracy. Every educated person in those days knew how gifted speakers like Alcibiades advanced their own ambitions at terrible cost to Athens by manipulating the emotions of the demos.
An earlier thread discussed how deeply apocalyptic-visions have been woven into our culture. Obama represents the hope of salvation from [this supposed] coming destruction. We can see how quickly the celebrity-crazed MSM has picked up on that theme by the many associations of Obama with JFK’s Camelot, MLK’s Dream, and Obama’s promise to “talk” with our enemies as if his magic voice can turn lions into lambs.
Whether Obama is a disciple of the Religion of Death or not I do not know. We do know that he has the most liberal (that is to say: neo-totalitarian) voting record in the U.S. Senate.
Maybe I’m channeling some ancient Greek bastard who got the willies listening to Alcibiades but I see an Obama presidency as a time of misery and destruction like we have never known.
I recall hearing that during the 2004 Democratic convention, The Dead had been scheduled to play at one of the parties. However, they got dis-invited, following some flap involving Whoopie Goldberg that caused the Party increased worry about its image. Now, I wouldn’t expect Obama to bring back Garcia and Pen, but Deadheads shouldn’t be feeling more welcome at Ann Coulter’s house than in the Democratic ‘big tent’.
Twice as many Democrats are voting in the primaries. McCain is just too liberal for a core right wing Republicans and they are gonna stay home in protest. Ralph Nader can’t siphon off enough votes to make a big difference. It doesn’t look like another 51-49 or 52-48 squeaker in November to me.
That Whoopie Goldberg flap was a vulgar comment she made about her hairy bush on TV, and the King George fans called the FCC…
“In the long-run, that kind of Change will be anathema to the creativity & the individuality celebrated in music in general, & GD-music in particular.”
What the hell….?
ernie, I think you are an absolutely paranoid and half insane person!
“B.HusseinO.” ???? What’s your point here? Sounds nothing but racist to me.
The play-list from `theBenefit-for-Obama’ at theWarfieldTheater on Mon-evening 4Feb, sounds like a wonderful bunch of tunes — that I hope my taper-buddy will soon burn me a copy of. Reading JBergan’s & RSimon’s reviews made me doubly-enthusiastic, except for the thought of the politics. “… absolutely paranoid and half-insane .. [and] .. racist ..”? No! What are ya, a fourteen-yrs-old? I’m in my sixties, & all of this misery-&-suffering & unremitting-bleakness meme is a canard theLeft has ALWAYS been sending up. They’ve ALWAYS pulled our chain w/ this bullshit. Even theRussian-people figured this shit out! If things are so bad, then where are theDems getting their gazillions in campaign-funds from?[Answer: not important `where’, what is important is things aren’t bad like theLeft sez.] Going w/ Obama (or Hillary or Nader/Gonzales) will prove profoundly UNWISE !!!
From the RogerLSimon-blog, a commenter remarked: The vast majority of Americans have a positive view of M L King and the civil-rights movement of the early-’60s. At the same time, the vast majority of Americans have a negative view of the defiant-rejectionism of the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, Angela Davis, Stokely Carmichael, etc.
When OJ Simpson was acquitted, and millions of Black people were celebrating because they were happy to see a Black man beat the system, it showed that this defiant-rejectionism, and the whole notion of “stickin’ it to the man”, is still very prevalent within the Black community.
Because of this, Americans are much more suspicious of Black liberal politicians than they are of White liberal politicians. This is why I think that the only way a Black person will ever become President is if they’re either a Republican or a very centrist Democrat. Someone who has been a straight-arrow throughout their whole life. Someone who served in the military. Someone who wears their patriotism on their sleeve. Someone who waits until they’ve acquired a significant amount of political experience before running for the highest office in the land. Barack Hussein Obama is none of these things.
I think his involvement in a Black separatist church will be his ultimate undoing. If he’s such a uniter who transcends race, what on earth is he doing in a Black separatist church? It makes him look like a hypocrite[what?, a liberal/leftist a hypocrite? !!!]. McCain will not be mentioning Obama’s church in any speeches or campaign ads. But if Obama wins the nomination, you can bet that the website for Obama’s church will receive tens of millions of hits from ordinary Americans who hear about it through word of mouth. They won’t like what they see. Posted by: [a commenter called]The Fop at February 23, 2008 2:04 PM
Regurgitating more half-digested VRWC talking points. Check!
I mean, you used the word “islamofascist” a while back, without irony and as if it means something.
I have mixed feelings about Ralph running for President. He has the right to run. I voted for him in 2000, but if California had been as close and meaningful as Florida, I would not have voted for him. Looking at the last seven years of a diabolical GOP nightmare I wish he had not run at all. It is surprising he has the chutzpah to enter again. It appears to be a sure thing for Barack or Hillary in November, but another 9/11 or the capture of bin-Laden in September could turn literate Americans into frightened simpletons waving the flag and pounding the Bible and the GOP’s approval % skyrocket as it did after Sept. 11, 2001.