Yesterday the Grateful Dead’s archive was removed from public access at archive.org. From the announcement:
…the Internet Archive has been asked to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed on the Archive site for the time being. The full collection will remain safe in the Archive for preservation purposes.
Here is the plan:
Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).
Soundboard recordings are not available.
The howling has begun, and the sense of entitlement that has always concerned me is in full flower.
Many are quoting the famous Jerry Garcia statement, “Once we’re done with it, you can have it,” or words to that effect.
I think we need to get a little perspective here.
First of all, when Jerry said that – and he said it more than once, so we know he meant it – tape trading was an important aspect of life in the Deadhead community. It was a one-to-one affair, for the most part, and although there were some social pathologies in evidence, it was largely a manifestation of our love for the music and our desire to enlighten the world and turn our friends on.
That is a far cry from what is happening now. The internet Archive and all the other online distribution sources are high-speed, mass-distribution systems that make the best quality recording available to all who know where to look for them. That is a good thing, of course, culturally – but there is an economic element to this that must be taken into account.
I’ve read a ton of angry posts in the last 24 hours, from people who are convinced the greedy Grateful Dead are doing this to preserve their champagne-and-Porsche lifestyles. “I’ve given them thousands of dollars over the years, for tickets and CDs and t-shirts,” I read. “How dare they take away my instant access to all their music just so they can make money off it?”
A couple of weeks ago there was another round of layoffs at GDP. A few more people – friends and fellow Deadheads – lost their jobs because GDP isn’t making enough money to keep them on board. I heard that one of the casualties of this last downsiziing was Ram Rod, who was a member of the GD road crew from the beginning. I really don’t think anyone took lightly the decision to let that brother go.
“They are doing this in order to protect their download business,” is another cry I’ve heard. Well, yeah, and in what universe is that an unreasonable position?
I don’t really have a dog in this fight. I have a job on the periphery of the Grateful Dead organization, but I am not privy to their decision-making process and I don’t depend on them for my income. I help to promote their official releases by playing them on the radio, obviously, but I also play a lot of unreleased music (and I’ve gotten some of that unreleased music from archive.org).
I have sympathies on both sides of this issue, but I am also detached enough from it to have a perspective that I hope you’ll at least consider.
There’s a petition online directed at GDM and promising a boycott. “Now it appears doing the right thing for the fans, has given way to greed.”
I think it is worthwhile to ask ourselves if there isn’t some greed on the other side of the equation.
update: Another petition
Update 11/26: another petition – much more kindly worded.
Update 11/28: Given the violence of the response my post has gotten (on other blogs, on rec.music.gdead, etc.) – which to a certain extent proves my point about the bad attitudes of some Deadheads – I suppose I need to make explicit what I thought was pretty clear: I am not blindly supporting the GD organization’s decision here. I think they’re within their rights to shut off the high-speed free download service, but I also think it is not likely to give them the result they seem to be looking for. Nor has anythiing been said about discouraging smaller-scale trading of soundboard tapes.
And of course, the complete absence of an explanatory word from the organization is (although pretty much par for the course) a big part of the problem.
To those who have blithely asserted that I have no right to comment since I can get whatever I want from the vault, my “collection is complete,” and I have no need for archive.org myself, I need to say: sorry, none of those things is true. I have gotten lots of great music from the archive for the radio show, and I haven’t had access to the vault since Dick Latvala passed away six years ago. I’d also like to suggest that pure self-interest is not the only possible point of view, and assassinating the character of people who disagree with you – especially since it’s possible they don’t really differ so much – is not terribly constructive.
This is a complicated situation. That’s all I’m sayin’.
Update 11/29: RollingStone.com news item quoting this blog, w/ Dennis McNally saying, “David Gans’ comments were dead — you’ll pardon the expression — on.” I wonder what that portends for the official announcement.
Update 11/30: Jeff Leeds of the New York Times calls me for comment after talking to Dennis McNally. “Deadheads Outraged Over Web Crackdown“:
David Gans, who is the host of a syndicated radio program, “The Grateful Dead Hour,” said in an interview yesterday that the battle is rooted in the band’s “historically lackadaisical attitude toward their intellectual property.” He added: “When they were making $50 million a year on the road, there wasn’t a lot of pressure to monetize their archives.” Now, however, it may be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle. While the move to revise the Live Music Archive may deal a blow to what many fans considered an organized library of material, “the idea that they could stop people from trading these files is absurd,” Mr. Gans said, adding: “It’s no longer under anyone’s control. People have gigabytes of this stuff.”
Update 11/30: Phil Lesh has posted a statement on his web site:
It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead’s legacy and I hope that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart listening to Jerry’s poetic guitar and sweet voice.
We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed us to play “without a net”. Your love, trust and patience made it possible for us to try again the next show when we couldn’t get that magic carpet off the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed.
– Phil
I’m with you. Again. I do think they should leave the auds up there for download, though.
Darn it. You mean I need to be nice to people, be social, talk about shows and actually mix with other people that appreciate the same music and things I do if I want to trade for shows. Damn it, bring back the instantaneous downloads.
I started trading tapes in the mid 70’s,collected quite a few right up till Jer died.Then i stopped for a few years.My teenage daughter gets a computer and i’m fooling around and came upon etree.VIOLA.That was in 2001 or 2.I was STUNNED to see what had become of the baby.I’m glad its back to the ole days.I just wish i could work this keypad with more than one finger.Be Kind & be wise.
David, Your comments are dead-on. It seems GDM wants to be the sole outlet for internet downloads. I haven’t downloaded from them yet and I certainly won’t now. Audience recordings should not have been restricted. That was their big mistake here. I signed the petition and I intend to abide by it. GDM has my name, my email address, hell they even have my home address. They may as well remove it all from their database. I will still support GDTS-TOO. I have bought music and other merchandise from them in the past but not again until they amend their policy to allow downloads of audience recordings on the Archive again.
I’m with you David.
Folks need to realize they have been given a gift, and it is not something that is “owed” to them
I’nm not sure what the deal is w/ audience recordings. I expect there will be explanations and probably some adjustments pretty soon.
I agree that they have the right. I’m still filled with sorrow. I think that a lot of the anger is a cover for pain. It was such a joy to have so much access that it really smarts to have it disappear. I will have to learn the trading game………….which I will.
David
You are right on the money with your blog entry regarding the cessation of The Internet Archive e-trading of sbds
The Grateful Dead owe us nothing. They’ve given me joys and memories only exceeded by my children, my current wife as well as some long-legged beauties along the way :-).
There seems to be an inalienable sense of entitlement among us deadheads and some incredible self-righteouness. Its their property and we have to respect them.
Besides, the GD lent their “vault” to us for 40 years. If we have to give it back, it’s still been a win/win for everybody!
Why does everyone think that all involved with GDP are wealthy. Considering all the money put into the music, equipment etc, they made good livings, but probably not the wealth of a Mick Jagger or David Bowie. This aside, you forget that the Musicians own the music period. It is their perogative as to what to do.
Secondly, As they age, it probably becomes more and more difficult being on the road. the Vault perhaps will support them in retirement.
Now as for the otherside: allowing taping and trading scene definately introduced new generations to the Grateful Dead, remeber that other superbands of the 60’s and 70’s are considered “old time acts”, yet the Dead continued to attract new fans, and still does.
A good part of their success has to be due to their policies on taping, a very smart business move. The new restictions will most likely cost them fans, both old and new, and certainly cost a huge amount of the good will they’ve accumulated over the years.
Will this all be the right decision? Only time will tell, but we need to be grateful for the years of free access to the music, for their dedication to getting the music out as unspoiled as possible and for their unwavering dedication for the good and right causes. (How many huge rockers sold out, just take a look).
GDP ownes the vault, they have every right to do with it as they please. I believe threatening to boycott GDP is downright childish, selfish and ungrateful, considering what they’ve been and what they’ve meant to us.
Gene Martin
SF
Hi!
David, if the GD organization takes control and offers up downloads of Aud for free. I’ll eat all my complaining words.
However, I see a $15 a show download fee on the horizon.
I see no difference between trading CDs and downloading them. Who cares if more people have access and can download them (instead of trading)? I fail to see the difference except that for some reason the organization seems to have a problem with so many people have SBDs. If its not about money, why were the AUD pulled as well?
You keep saying we feel entitled? Shouldn’t we (to a point)? As fans as have kept this grassroots type thing going for 40 years (some fans have been around that long anyway). We have pumped millions of dollars into pockets of this organization. Personally I think the GD organization feels entitled to out unquestioned support.
I am always bragging about the difference between the GD and other bands. GD freely allowing the sharing of their music is a huge point I try to make.
Now I can no longer make that point (at least from download perspective).
I have not signed either petition and probably will not sign the first one at all. I feel the second one more states what I feel. Though I will not be asking for anything from GDM this Christmas nor will I being buying anything (at this point at least).
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion here. If the AUD had not been pulled IÕd be way less upset and skeptical.
Just my two pennies, which in the whole scheme of the means very little.
Peace
Roger
David, your comments make alot of sense but I think that your perspective is a far cry from that of the average Deadhead out there. I mean come on, you’re a guy that has had unparalleled access to the vault for your radio show for a long time now. I’m sure you have and will continue to have access to any Grateful Dead related recording that you could possibly want. Maybe you can remember a time when you hung out at a friend’s house dubbing audio cassettes on a boom box, but that sure was a long time ago wasn’t it? Can you really relate to the profound sense of loss that is felt by GDP forced removal of access to these remarkable recordings? Of course people are angry, it’s like taking a junkie’s stash from them. For the average Deadhead, the LMA was more than a goldmine. It evened the playing field, so to speak, and made readily available the pristine sounding recordings that for so long were only accessable by a priveleged few. I feel so lucky now that I have known about it for as long as I have, and was able to download as much as I did. I do wish that I was more dilligent about snagging the 80’s and 90’s shows that they had up there.
“The news is out , all over town , that you’ve be seen a messing around ”
Once again another chapter is this history book has closed .
“You must leave now take what you need and leave the rest”
Cause its all over know Baby Blue .
It was a good run , all thats left are lots of CD’s to listen to, and 100.00 ticket prices to look forward to for a summer tour IF one comes around. Will they remove the right to tape the new shows now as well ?
I’m saddened to hear that Ram Rod is being laid off (WTF?!? Who has more seniority than him?) and others. I agree, David, that the sense of entitlement can lead to greed. That cuts both ways: demanding fans who howl when the free buffet is closed, as well as business decisions predicated on a constant demand for a product into the future regardless of how consumer relations are handled. Both are unreasonable and untenable. I don’t even download, just buy releases, including the 10 CD Beanie Baby Special, but I’m upset at the shortsightedness of this move, pissing off the core audience to benefit, short or long term.
This is really sad news and I hope that the GDM organization can release some sort of press release on this soon. The folks at Archive.org have been very conscientious about removing soundboards of shows that have been officially released by the band. Having said this, I know the folks at GDM also get lots of requests to release favorites such as Cornell Õ77, but I think that they have balked at the idea because of the costs involved in producing a release like this that may not return their investment knowing that folks can just download it for free.
I also know that GDM has become strictly a business these past few years with most of the motivation towards the bottom-line. This is in fact true of JerryGarcia.com which is run by the Koons family, Unfortunately, these folks had very little involvement with the Dead prior to JerryÕs passing so donÕt know first-hand of the generous nature of the Dead family. Also, their involvement with Wolfgang Vault only epitomizes their motivation to gouge the Deadhead community. Wolfgang Vault for those who donÕt know is the company that bought out all the old BGP posters (e.g., Fillmore series, etc.) and has exclusive rights to use of these posters/images. They have nothing to do with Bill Graham, his family or the Dead, and employ very questionable business practices. I think the greedy nature of the GDM and other related businesses have created the environment today that lead to this sad decision.
We are all sad, but it won’t do us any good to waste a lot of time on being mad, too. We can all still trade and talk and share. I really liked that part of the whole deal back when. The hardest part for me is updating a monster of a database of shows that I have(poor me!). David, I bet that the message board at GDH Trading heats up this month, eh? Lots to trade!
I am “grateful” for access to all the files at archive.org, and disappointed to learn that the best of them are no longer available. I can’t join those who take offense at this new policy, however. GDP or GDM doubtless have some profit motive in mind, but it seems to me that the artists’ right to control the treatment & distribution of their work is a more compelling reason for the change. Some of the SBDs sound awful, having been copied, mutilated, “edited” etc. for decades by well-meaning collectors. The music may be great, or not, but many recordings are unlistenable in their current state (unless you don’t mind tape flips in the middle of jams, truncated songs, weird pitch “corrections,” etc.). Some of us might overlook these flaws, but a lot of curious neophytes will be turned-off by a “great show” that’s riddled with splices and audio drop-outs. I’d rather buy Dick’s Picks and wish more soundboards could be made available through official channels for a reasonable price. Meanwhile, I’ll enjoy the couple dozen shows, Aoxomoxoa out-takes and Acid Test curios I snagged while the Archive was giving ’em away!
Just so happens I’ve been reorganizing my music space and came across all my old tapes and some CD trading envelopes not logged. Surely the second best thing of my relatively small traded collection is the impressions of my fellow humans; the generosity, friendliness and spirit of sharing and dedication to quality that came from that community. ( I have never downloaded shows, I’m on dial -up)
I hope there is a way for the trading world to live on. After the actual shows I think it was the coolest things the GD universe had to offer.
People say they spent all this money over the years on tickets, records, posters, t-shirts, etc. and the GD owes them for that.
The tickets bought them entry into a show, which were mostly great as these same people complain about not having access to the shows they now want to download.
The albums and CDs and posters are their property. They own them. They behave, though, as if they were just giving their money to the GD for charitable purposes.
T-shirts are cool. Again, you buy a shirt, you like the design of it, you can keep it for years if you take care of it.
I just don’t see what the problem is.
Gene Martin said ÒGDP ownes the vault, they have every right to do with it as they please.Ó
Actually, Jerry and other band members have said many times that once a show is played, it is theirs (referring to the community). This is a verbal contract and could easily be challenged in court. Certainly, the band has the right to materials (e.g., soundboards) that they may have distributed freely to the public. However, the Dead allowed tapers to freely tape and redistribute live concerts. This included folks who recorded audience tapes as well as those who plugged into the soundboard. So I donÕt think it is fair that these soundboards be removed from Archive.org.
Joby posted:
“I think that your perspective is a far cry from that of the average Deadhead out there.”
Of course he’s right about that, but I am not arguing from my own self-interest here. I have gotten a lot of music from archive.org that I’ve played on the radio, and I haven’t gotten music from the vault in a very long time. So this affects me, too.
Doesn’t change what I think is right.
well put David. All of the negativity is absurd, and shows how much “false entitlement” so many “fans” seem to have. It makes me want to buy something from GDP even more, to show they have my support.
I understand why they are doing it. When the latest GD Download series came out (1980 shows), I said to myself, why pay for that one download when I can just go onto archive.org and download 20 other shows just like it. Same with some of great new Dick’s Picks. Most of the time, downloading a whole bunch of new shows from archive.org gets rid of my “have to have, order right away” impluse feeling.
Jesus Christ whoever gloms onto a band and gets a job out of it should be happy that job lasts longer than a few years. I’m sorry but I have no sympathy for all the “kewl cats” who made no other living than selling GD merchandise for 30 years. Now all of us fans are supposed to feel sorry for Ram Rod and these guys who only got a damn job because they hung around the scene? You wanna talk about leaches…there you go. Don’t come on here and generalize by telling us fans we have a sense of entitlement, then turn around and ask us to feel sorry for a guy who sold T-shirt when he wasn’t getting faced at dead shows. The GD scene is beat, and what’s left of the band plus the few remaining leaches in their business organization have driven the last nail in the coffin.
I don’t get it…We organize a great site that everyone contributed to..no harm..once the $$$ drops down, the site is down..We KNOW GDP is having $$ situations (RAMROD’s GONE,wtf?), but don’t take away THE MUSIC that is FOR US…seems very very greedy, to take down the SBD’s and leave STREAMING AUDs…hmmm BULLSHIT, I DONT CARE WHAT SOME OF YOU SAY…THIS IS A STEP FOR THEM, & THOSE WHO ARE NOT CONCERNED AND SAY “GD owes us NOTHING” well, they DO..we keep them supported for many many years. and this is the REACTION WE GET<<< FUCK THAT SHIT_______ BUT THEY CANNOT TAKE "OUR" MUSIC AWAY !!!!!!
All good points DG.
There is definitely an entitlement issue here. We have all seen how the child reacts when being weened from the teet that they have suckled for years.
My issue is the audience tapes – that is what alienates me…I guess not much from the band at all , just GDM….then again I never really was a fan of GD merchandising.
Smoke em if ya got em.
thanks for the post david.and it is sad that some of the so called true fans are bashing GDM for what they have done ,as if they(the fans)owned the music themselves.and thanks for getting back to my e-mail.i just wanted you to know that it’s not everyone that feels they were robbed!!!
thank you and and all of the GD family
peace,
jammin’
Thanks for the post David, you helped me to put things into perspective. When I first heard the news I was pissed, but you are right, we aren’t entitled to the music and we don’t own it. We were spoiled by the archive. I’ve been hearing rumors that this was going to happen for a while, but didn’t believe them.
It really would be interesting to hear Jerry’s take on mass distribution of their catalog via the internet. Thank goodness for bittorrent and bt.etree.org. I will say that I agree with many others that the auds should still be available for download.
((((Jerry)))) (((GD)))) as ever, changes in the world occurs.. but I found the best way to relieve my stress was thru the music of Jerry and the Band… seeing as this all started out by trades, either by mail or tapers parties… only problem now without the sources that were offered to us is that the music will now be generated to a point of crap (a lil EQ here, normalize there)… the idea of keeping the music as pristine as possible made me feel in a way a guarenteed source of clean unadulterated music… if only this reprimanding of music (I say reprimand because the audience shows are now in “lossy” formats) is because the GDP (what’s left) wants to clean up and digitze EVERYTHING then redistribute them (even if there’s a fee – cuz they will be clean and plentiful) could possibly justify what I feel is a locking up of (((Jerry))) – thank you for all the music – I hope we can get Jerry back out of the Vault – Ripples in still waters….
Peace and may music filled the air… (and hire RamRod back, he’s not supposed to go too far from tree)… nothing left to do but smile smile smile…
Well said, David. No ifs ands or buts.
Who else not only gave away so much music but began an entire culture that gives us the rest of etree, etc. Granted, Jer and that other DG Mr. Grisman were toting their reel to reels to bluegrass shows before like some other folks but does anyone really think the whole jamband scene would be essentially giving away copies of their shows if it hadn’t been for the Dead?
As a very wise singer songwriter says:
“Who killed Uncle John
And kept the show from going on?
“Not I,” said the idiot
Flaming on the Internet
“He owed his wealth to guys like me
I take his work so seriously”
“Not I,” said the completist
Fondling his compact discs
“I’m sorry that he’s gone away
I’ll soon own every note he played”
It wasn’t me who stopped his heart
I served the man who served his art…”
Hi Rob.
You stated that it was a gift. If that is so, then how does one take a gift back? “Indian Giver” comes to mind. I am not fond of that saying but I am not sure what the politically correct version would be. Gift giver and taker backer? Even Judge Judy has said that once it is a gift, one cannot take it back. 🙂
Have a nice day and a great Thanksgiving. I’ll be giving thanks for the downloads I have been able to accumulate over the last couple of years.
How will this effect downloads on other sites like e-tree? I have not seen many GD shows lately on that site. Very few and far between.
>>>>”Posted by: Rob Futterman at November 23, 2005 10:51 AM
I’m with you David.
Folks need to realize they have been given a gift, and it is not something that is “owed” to them””<<
Maybe it’s time to digitalize the vault if GDM is hard up for $$$…
The end result, no doubt will be for the good. Just what that will be, remains to be seen. Maybe the customer service aspect of the systems in place will improve. Maybe the communication among the community, between merchant and the marching band will improve. No one wants this to be reduced to a shovel and throat delivery system so common in marketing today. Maybe the human to human kindness will return, that was syphoned by the whoosh of broadband connections.
I know one little demon in the box is the habit of hording. I faced this, as I kept ‘improving’ how I stored them all. Finally, I just started carrying them around, and infecting people with them…after all I still had the shn’s…..
There’s too much good in this garden to worry about a little weeding. (multiple puns intended)
I understand GDP’s reasons for doing this, but it still saddens me.
Many of the uploads to archive.org involve value added by the same community of rabid audiophile completists who are now complaining about the loss of access.
Often, this would involve tracking down low-gen audience tapes to splice in to fill in cuts on the master tapes. These audience patches are from the taper community, not the vault, and it would be significant rework and duplicate effort by GDP to track them down and do it again (which likely means that it won’t happen, given organizational inertia).
Another issue involves the commercial release of the soundboards of shows.
If GDP had concurrently announced that all of the shows from the archive would be immediatly available from a pay-per-download site, at least the shows would be available.
Instead, they’ve gone into the “unavailable archive of special tapes” that nobody but a select few get to listen to (insert your own partial analogy to ‘tape hoarders’ here).
A few select shows will trickle out through the official release gates, but many will languish behind vaulted walls, unplayed. Yet, many of those unreleased tapes have forgotten musical moments on them that need only another listening for someone to say “WOW! I forgot how good ’84 could be!
If a tape sits in a vault in the forest and never gets played again, will its sound be lost and forgotten?
This is from Ed Brown via email, posted here with his permission:
Hi David,
I have enjoyed your radio program over the years and liked your book.
First off, I was not “savvy” enough to know what the archive deal was all about. I traded and obtained the music via the traditional channels (trades etc.)
Please don’t let some people (I suspect most who never saw papa play) drag down our whole music scene.
For over 30 years we have had free and unfettered access to what we all felt was the best music ever created in the world. Yes Jerry said we can have it, but you may want to remind the souls who are now complaining, that in those days, the reference was to privately recorded copies for personal distribution within our community. I suspect that papa was satisfied that the jack straw in the audience had paid for his ticket and if it was his trip to record; so be it!! and if he made copies for the other heads, fine so long as no money was involved. Thankfully, the “priacy” was kept to a minimum. Those complaining, don’t remember the stories of the deads’ lawyers with police busting the shops that sold bootleg records and tapes. Though not a big problem, I remember the small record shop in Greenwich Village on 8th street that one day had no more GD tapes! Still had everyone else, but no more GD or JGB or Bobby & The Midnites etc.
We need to remind everyone that the taped legacy is still the intellectual property of the musicians who made it and their families.
The “family” could claim copyright infringement on all the audience tapes if they want to. I suspect, it is too hard to do, and also a feeling (as always) that those tapes belong to “us” because of the Jack Straw in the audience who took the time to record it himself.
There is so much music available I want to apologise for these people complaining. I mean hey, they are just asking 1 more person to pay. (like a ticket) I know they are not gong to go after people for making copies for friends and newbies to turn on.
Children today have bastardized our model of music distrubution. I applaud the band for trying to keep what is rightfully thiers. They worked so hard to build such a library and now their families can reap the rewards of the legacy. (minimal as it is) Isn’t that the American way? To build a business that lasts and pass it on to the kids?
Maybe someone with status within the family should address the issue and nip it in the bud. We dont need the negative vibes.
Maybe Mountain Girl. Jerry’s daughters deserve all that is theirs from the business, and she has always seemed to be able to sum up in a nutshell the “deal” when something needed to be addressed to the audience.
Peace always and have a great Thanksgiving!
Ed Brown
“Actually, Jerry and other band members have said many times that once a show is played, it is theirs (referring to the community). This is a verbal contract and could easily be challenged in court.”
This statement(s) does not come even close to meeting the requirements of a legally-enforceable contract, and you would be laughed out of court. First, the “terms” are too general, I mean it’s debatable whether the statement was contemplating taping at all. Also, the “GD community” is too nebulous an entity to be a party to a contract, and if it was, when (and how) did the community accept the contract? Also, there must be a bargained-for-exchange. Where was the bargain, and what did the GD community give up as their part of the exchange? Actually, this doesn’t meet ANY of the conditions needed for a contract.
DG has it completely right. I am saddened by the response from the internet community. I’ve always thought the Dead had the best fans anywhere, and now we look like the biggest bunch of spoiled babies I’ve ever seen. I feel downright ashamed, quite frankly. You can still get ANY SHOW YOU WANT, FOR FREE. You just have to go to a friend’s house or mail it to someone. Is it that difficult???
LDBS showed up in the mail today, so I’m gonna have an absolute blast tonight regardless.
As a music industry professional, I have to say that this is one of the stupidest business decisions ever made.
But, since the Napster decision (which was good, in that it preserved the artists rights to their work), every decision by the music industry has been incredibly short sighted. (As Bowie said “what kind of idiot sues his customers”?)
The one big factor that makes the GD viable in the 21st Century, long after their contemporaries are largely forgotten, is the constant advertisements provided by the brilliant move of allowing free taping and trading.
I haven’t the slightest doubt that I could dismantle any arguments to the contrary – from a business perspective – in 5 minutes, but we all know that human beings don’t operate logically.
An easy example is the fact that most of the 1969 Fillmore West shows were available to download for free throughout the time that the Box Set was for sale – and it didn’t prevent it from selling out. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of buyers already had the SBDs and that is how they knew how good those shows are.
That this decision did not come from a reasoned, logical and smart perspective is clear to most of the Deadheads – simply from the fact that AUDs are no longer available to download.
While SBDs come from PA system provided by the band, AUDs come from equipment and resources provided by tapers. Commercial releases are almost never made from AUD tapes, and many bands, including the GD, allow AUD tapes to circulate of the same shows that are commercially released.
So, clearly there are no good reasons for the removal of the AUD downloads, only bad ones.
Comments like “you should be thankful for what you have” or “now you will have to socialize with other Deadheads in order to get music”, however true, don’t make the decision a good one.
What a loss for the music lover. Fantastic instant access to a myriad of shows from the whole history of the fabled GD. Personally tried to take advantage of it as much as possible. I have some desert Island shows that I will always treasure. Funny thing about some of shows I love is that they are probably shows that wil never see an “Official” release. Even if they do, lord only knows when that will be. There is a lot of material out there, I am sure there is a point of market satuation, since it is a business I am sure a lot of thought goes into what is released and how popular/monetarily sucessful it will be for return on investment and other sundry business thought. My sense of time and taste might differ from the people that make the choices and well… On the brite side, I guess you can not miss what you do not know.
The access that was provided by the archive into the GD world was great while it lasted. The musical discoveries to be had were imense; fantastic possibilities abounded across 30 years and some 2900 plus shows availible. I am going to sorley miss that kid in the candy store feeling I had when looking at the main achrive page for the GD. Maybe I will go start my own band.
Selah
DG,
Thanks for the info on the current situation. I too have a better appreciation for GD’s prospective. The shows were here and now gone. I am incredibly grateful to have had the chance to explore so many performances. Really changed my life for the better. What makes me feel the worst is the fact that GD gave no warning or explanation. I suppose that’s their perogative but it certainly would’ve been the right thing to do…I’d have understood. Why no one is being up front is crazy. That’s certainly not what we’re all about in this vast community. My holiday gifts from GDP arrived today and because I can never re-pay the GD for the joyous impact of the music;I’ll continue to do business and purchase their music and goods. I truly hope that GD comes clean…maybe THAT is what they owe this community.
New technologies just helps those who want the music have access. There was high speed tape copying, but WE ALL did not like that because the quality was lower than slower duplication-remember? Now if someone bought a CD, “Dick Picks”, wouldn’t that be possibly copied or ripped to mp3? So there is no way to truly stop this unless the vault is locked, and wouldn’t that be the death of us all? The band should put the entire vault on a site and charge pennies. Not dollars. $16 for a downloaded mp3, that is terrible.
“maybe THAT is what they owe this community.”
According to some they do not owe us anything, but for some reason we owe them.
Not certain I understand….
Roger
I truly believe the music and fan base have been kept alive by the ability to download music.
the MP3 format stinks and most aud tapes sound horrible on my system.I think the success of the 1969 box set woke somebody up..I also believe that without the archive interest may have been lost..why not SACD format or DTS or HDCD ?? I am going to pay for a new mix..keep the dream alive Losing the downloads just plain hurts. No other band has had a run like this why punch us in the stomach
The GD machine can do as they wish. It is not right but they can. I always figured GDM would put out the shows that are not available. That is whats in the vault. There are hundreds I am sure.
who buys downloads and buys dicks pick’s? The same people downloading shows and buying gdm merchandise.
It was the free market supporting GDM and archive.org helped that. They are digging their own grave.
good luck and thanks for the past
Well, the Archive was too much of a good thing. I knew they would pull the plug eventually. I never bought in to the “entitlement” thing anyway. I certainly got my money’s worth from the Grateful Dead and don’t have a problem with paying for the shows I want. BUT – what they are charging now for FLAC’s is way too much, considering there are no packaging, manufacturing, or shipping costs involved. I really hope they lower the price somewhat.
They have no money? Is that,.. what the F…. oh wait…never trust a prankster…?!…oh I get it now..Its a prank oh I see! Ok put the shows back up we got it now….Ha ha very funny
I’ve been thinking about this all day and another thought has occured to me. Most of us have hundreds if not thousands of Dead shows on CD. We’d probably not get to listen to all the shows anyway, but
Now is a good opportunity to start checking out some of the other music which is available and has been available. In the Jazz world alone, there is incredible music going back 80 years, available on CD!. Tens of thousands of CD’s
World music, progressive rock from the 70’s that was overlooked, Zappa, Miles, Swing Music from the 30’s and 40’s, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Billy, Ella, Fletcher.
Than we have classical music, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart! etc, there is a reason this music has lasted for so long, classical means classic!
World Music, Music from Latin America, Indian ragas, it’s endless!
I admit that the GD were great, yet there is other things to listen to, to appreciate, to explore.
You might not have access to the soundboards anymore, and in all probablility you’ll have to buy them, but there is a world of music besides the Grateful Dead!
Ya know, I’d bet that the Band would be the first to tell you that also!.
Gene Martin,
SF
I had just rekindled my love for The Dead last year, much in part to the existence of The Archive. I found much joy in exploring the shows there, some of which I downloaded, some of which I just streamed. I just bought my first Dicks Pick last weekend, and was planning on buying more. I was building a collection of shows, both from The Archive, and from what I would buy on I-Tunes.
It was developing into a joyful and enjoyable hobby for me, and now its gone. I haven’t been angry today, just sad. This is one of the things that made The Dead truly unique, now they are as corporate as anyone else, and that’s just not right.
David,
I see you have made some comments regarding my opinions on the current situation of Archive.org and GDMÕs decisions to release these songs.
I want to start by saying the basis for that petition was derived directly from an email I wrote to GDM. An online friend had basically changed the ÒIÕsÓ to ÒWeÕsÓ and started the petition. I still stand by what I have said.
Believe it or not, you know me quite well David. We have met many times, we have spoken many times. IÕve been right out at FOH mixing your sets, and IÕve even mixed your monitors at many shows. I listened to your voice on the dead hour for years, and I openly wept when you and Donna Jean played ÒSing me back homeÓ at the Gathering of the Vibes this past year. I truly respect you as a deadhead, as a musician, and as a friend. Therefore, I truly respect your opinions.
But I also feel that my opinions are valid, and I hope you will allow me to explain why.
It is important to understand, that to me (like many deadheads), The Grateful Dead are more than just music. ItÕs more than just concerts, or tapes or SHN files. ItÕs more than t-shirts, and tattoos, or lyric books.
The Grateful Dead is like an old friend, just as much of a living entity as you and I. Like an old friend that is there when you need them, an old friend that comforts you in the sad times, and dances beside you in the best times. One to provide words of wisdom, and insight, and give you purpose when you have none. This is a friend you trust, a friend you love, and in all honestly a friend you donÕt know if you can live without. Just, one of those friends you donÕt have to say a word to, and you know all is understood.
Today, I feel this old friend has betrayed me, and it really hurts. No, ItÕs not about the archive, or the ill treatment or JerryÕs Guitars. ItÕs not about the overpriced tickets, and separation of band members, or even the poor quality of some of the shows IÕve seen lately. I can forgive mistakes, and poor decisions, god knows IÕm guilty of my fair share of those things in this life. ItÕs more than that. I trusted this friend, and I showed my alliance to this friend for years. We supported each other, we communicated, and we made decisions together.
I remember trading my first analog tapes, living my life in 45 minute intervals flipping tapes to send this music too all my friends. I remember the switch to DAT, then to burnable CDÕs. Now itÕs various computer files. The media changed, and with every change the timeframe to copy the music shortened. But the rules never changed, no commercial profits were to be made, and we understood that. We abided by the rules, but yet now we are being punished? If new decisions were to be made regarding this 30 year policy, shouldnÕt we have been informed? Questioned? Contacted?
But this decision was made, and nobody said a word to us. There was no press release explaining why. There was no questionnaire asking how we felt about it. There was nothing, no communication at all. And this relationship has always been about communication, hasnÕt it?
I donÕt feel that the Grateful Dead owe me anything. IÕm not that pretentious. I donÕt expect something for nothing. Like I said, I gladly supported the boys for years. CDÕs, DVDÕs, posters, Tickets, tickets, tickets! Hell how about my entire wardrobe when I was a teenager?
But decisions are being made that I simply can not stomach. Granted, itÕs a sad of affairs when the financial state of the band forces them to let go the personnel foundation they have relied upon for years. IÕve worked in the music industry my whole life, I know how things go. Names like Ramrod, Healy, Pearson, Popick, Cantor and Brightman. These are names of my heroes! I canÕt stand the thought of seeing them let go because of the financial state of the band.
But I hardly feel the resolve is to take away something The Grateful Dead promised us was ours long ago.
By releasing this material through Itunes, it is now an official release, is it not? And therefore no longer available for free trade. Is this the case? I donÕt know, but it sure seems this way, and there has been no press release to tell us otherwise. To think that I could be jailed or fined for trading a Grateful Dead tape is downright preposterous. Really, of all the Òillicit activitiesÓ I have participated in at shows, I never thought I would get in trouble for trading a tape ( or in this case an MP3 file)
David, this shits upon the very principals that we believe in. It is the core of what made this whole machine work.
So, what does it really boil down to? Why am I upset?
We donÕt ask much as deadheads. Give Lemiux the master recording, take it into the studio, run it through some nice clean preamps and equalize the mix. Make it sound good, and put it on a CD. Throw it in a case with some photos, artwork, and some reviews. We gladly pay thirty bucks for it, just to support the band we love so dearly.
But to take a show off of archive and sell the same (previously free) individual songs on I tunes for 99 cents each, now that I can not support. It feels like a greedy move, especially when there is no explanation behind it, or efforts being made to improve the quality of what was previously available.
This is not only because it’s just wrong to take something that has been free for thirty years and then put a price tag on it. But also because I find it morally wrong to pay anything for an eight minute version of fedicule-fedicula. ( cÕmon we need a little satire in this elongated emotional explanation.. Feel free to insert your own personal chuckleÉ.. *here* )
But seriously, here are some suggestions for the dead.
¥ More Dead DVDÕs. We love them… We want more
¥ More Dicks picks. We love them… We want more
¥ More Vault releases. We love them… We want more
¥ Get in the studio, record some new songs.
¥ For GodÕs sake will somebody PLEASE release an 8.27.72 DVD set already! We have only been waiting 33 years for it. FuckinÕ Slackers. 😉
¥ Ask us what we want, we will tell you
¥ Communicate with your fans, we are here because of you. But you are here, because of us. We need each other. LetÕs work together.
On a more personal noteÉ
I love what I love and I want it that way. I will always love the Grateful Dead. We just want you to respect your fans, and consider how your decisions affect us. We are all in it together, like it or not.
Not a Dead fan at all. Don’t own a single recording. Read both sides of the story, the Dead would have been six feet under 20 years ago without the rabid fan base that they are turning their backs on….
I sincerely hope that the hardcore have the gumption to make good on their threats. If it happened to me by my favorite band I’d have to think twice about putting another cent in their pockets.
Hey, I got a great idea! I’d like to get a bunch of Jethro Tull shows. I think I’ll put up a server that you can all upload your favorite show onto. Then when I’ve got them all, I’ll pull the plug. Anyone want to join??
It is the Grateful Dead’s music, and they do get
to set the rules.
It’s just that for close to 40 years, the rules
were clear and consistent. Digital downloading
isn’t new, either, and the rules there were
clear and consistent. Don’t make any money
off of it, and you’re ok.
The rules have now changed. How do we find out?
Not from the Dead, but from a cryptically
worded statement from the Internet Archive.
It’s not greed or an overinflated sense of
entitlement to feel a bit betrayed by this.
It’s not about the money. I’ve bought every
recording made by the Grateful Dead, and
some in multiple formats (record, tape,
CD). I’ve bought tickets and merchandise,
and regret not a single penny I’ve spent.
I did it not just because I loved the music,
but I loved the philosophy and the ethos.
I loved what the music stood for, and that
it stood apart from the routine commercialism
that was the modern entertainment industry.
It doesn’t seem to stand apart anymore.
I’ll think twice about the next Dead music
I buy. I’ll probably do it, old habits
die hard. But it won’t be the same. And
maybe the second or third time, there
just won’t be the motivation anymore.
After all, how many Dark Stars can one
truly listen to in ones life, when it’s
no longer the embodiment of experimentation
in every sense and is just another piece
of music to buy?
Life is change. The Dead can change the
rules, the philosophy. They deserve every
bit of compensation for the pleasure they
given all of us. I begrudge them, their
staff, their children and heirs none of
it.
They seem to have made a business decision.
And now, suddenly, each purchase will, for
me, be a business decision, too.
That’s a loss that saddens me.
– ST
I’m really ticked about this. It will be a long time before they see anymore of my cash. Maybe if they got rid of some of their lawyers they could hire RamRod back. This is a sad day in Grateful Dead history. No way I’ll pay $16.00 to download a show, maybe 5-6 dollars but that’s it. I foresee this decision biting them in the ass.
i know alot of you don’t care about this aspect, but is this the way phish is gonna go to. maybe not just them, but everyone. at the prices that music has grown to, how can anyone afford to listen to a wide variety of music? thanks to everyone in the internet music community, i can now listen to various forms of music that i never would have believed, or dreamed, i’d be listening to! i may not have heard of miles, coltrane, scofield, bela fleck, victor wooten, leo kottke, or even fell in love with the stones like i have! i liked the fact that i could compare different versions of dark star, whether it was a shitty aud from ’71 to a pristine dsbd reincarnation of th ’90s. for what its worth, THANKS to all the tapers, archivists, remasterers, and just plain fans of the music zoo. its been a wild ride!
David, first off, I love and respect you and love your show if you happen to read this 🙂 You ask: “In what universe is [protecting one’s [business] an unreasonable positon ?”
Well, the answer used to be: The GRATEFUL DEAD UNIVERSE! That was the beauty of the whole thing! The band set a precedent when it allowed taping. Many other bands followed that precedent and it actually spawned a whole culture of taping, trading etc. This latest move seems to be reversing that historic precedent – that’s what’s disturbing about it.
One of the things that initially made the Dead so appealing to me was the notion that they were not just doing it for the money. They were doing it to promote so-called counterculture values…or so it seemed. As a fan who hasn’t had the good fortune of knowing the band members personally, it makes me think that maybe my belief that these guys really were “different” was just a delusion.
GD shows were one of the few things, if not the only thing, in my life that I can honestly say was – no strings attached – FREE. If they will now be for profit, at least they were free longer than air and water.
I agree with a prior poster that it just “feels like a greedy move.” Another poster says it’s “just the American way.” Well, exactly – that’s precisely the problem.
I’m grateful for all they’ve given me but disappointed with the direction of the whole thing and how mainstream it seems to have gone since Jerry died.
I’m disappointed in the way it went down as much as anything at this point. Someone in the scene found me and turned me on to God (Allah), so a bump in the road won’t detour us if the vehicle really is good. GDP should talk more.
But they could have left the comments up, as well as lo-res mp3s up for review, and cut prices a bit on the download series. I’m interested again but got tired of the misses not being expert in show histories, even with 60 or so certainly NOT always great shows.
I still feel bad that Jerry was, in a way, worked to death. I hope the grateful harmonious part of the dead & community is still there somewhere.
Go dig up some of your 88 or 89 Greek half time interviews. Dan Healy and Jerry Garcia told you many years ago; that the GRATEFUL DEAD concert library would be on line for sale some day. It was a pipe dream almost 20 years ago and the Download Series is reality now.
The prices are too steep in some cases. The buyer must supply the hardware, disks, cases, and broadband connections; yet the prices are equal to a commercially distributed Dick’s Picks package. I bought the 15 original Latvala releases because the man knew what he was doing. We usually don’t hear the leftovers any more.
Radio is becoming more of an advertisement for the above products, be it the syndicated Grateful Dead Hour, KLCC and many more. So it doesn’t surprise me that you’re doing much less on KPFA too.
We already have an official GRATEFUL DEAD internet radio station and http://www.deadshow.com Leaving the streams of crappy audience tapes on the archive is a waste of bandwith. And these fools believe, that nobody can record that $hit the old fashioned way, using some third party software. Wanna bet.
I use this media player plugin to import analog sources to the hard drive. NERO Burning Rom’s wave editor does a nice job of marking the tracks. Another CD is on the way…
Thanks David for being one of the voices of reason on this topic.Having read thru many of the disscusions on various boards reguarding the Archive pulling the downloading of the GD ” for the time being ”
While I can understand pulling the SBD’s it does kind of irk me pesonally that all the AUD are gone too. Does anyone remember when the band realized that they couldn’t stop the tapeing scene and instituted the taping section? 1983 I do believe,even on occasion offering a patch into the soundboard.
Yes I still have most of my old tapes most of which I also recorded and trade either in person or by snail mail.
So what’s the beef all the music is still out there “you just gotta poke sround”
Understandably most are upset over the fact that one day it was there on the Archive and “poof” now it’s not as freely available.
Yet I do agree that the Band does need to protect their download business but at what cost to the community as a whole…for without the community what business do you have?
You SHOULD be thankful for what you have, and not throw a hissy fit just because someone made your life a little less easy. I was working my way through the 1978 shows, up until yesterday, and at first I was unhappy with the decision, but when you sit down and do a little math, it would be difficult to listen to 13 years of concerts let alone 30+. I have a good idea most of the people posting here have more shows than they could possibly listen to, unless your job (DG) is to listen to music all day long.
I get paid to listen, my boss just doesn’t know it. =]:0)
I certainly agree that the band is entitled to profit from the music and the soundboards they made. But my view is with ADude, that restricting access to decent recordings is not the best way to do it, in fact it is the worst way to do it.
The declining cashflow and layoffs have led to a crisis in GDP. They perceived the easily downloadable soundboards as part of the problem, and now have yanked them. But I doubt that this will solve the problem. Much as we hate to admit it, the Dead have been gone ten years, and the Heads who followed the Dead around are a finite, aging, shrinking group. I’ve been around a few scenes where basically the heyday was in the past (folkdancing, dying language communities). The only way to revitalization is to bring new, younger people in. It’s very difficult. Yet the internet allows not just friends of Heads but everyone to learn about what made the Dead so special – for a small price (access, equipment). It’s probably the best chance to avoid what is otherwise the inevitable decline in numbers of the Dead community, and therefore a continuing decline in revenue for GDP.
I would hate to see such a beautiful thing fade away.
GDP owes me nothing and i don’t expect to be given anything for free, but when i am i appreciate it. Takin away SBD’s is fine with me but why mess with AUD tapes. Next time it rains on them i hope they take it as Jerry pissing on em.
Up until reading this thread, and especially David’s comments, I was irritated and resentful, in a reflexive way. Upon reflection, a few things changed my take: (1) The plain truth is that I purchased less from GDP since Archives came on the scene (although I would assume that I have paid much more than your average dead head over the years, gladly so), and (2) I think it is legitimate for creative, well-intentioned people of good will at GDP to make a living and thrive (and expand and hire people). To do so, they have no other option than to incentivize and motivate people like me to pay for the remastered and neatly packaged shows. I am cool with that. After all, I have an embarrassing number of free shows as is (I suspect that if I listened to all them at about an hour a day clip it would take me at least a year and a half, and by the time I got back to the first show it would all be very, very fresh again). And, I know I will be paying closer attention to announcements from GDP and spending money gladly on new treats. The thing that impacted me the most is that people have lost their jobs as a result of low sales at GDP. I don’t want to be even a small part of that. In the spirit of thanksgiving, I want to say thank you to anyone who ever had (or continues to have) anything to do with creating, showing, taping, editing, mastering, storing, copying, advertising, distributing, and reviewing (pro bono or commercially) the music that I continue to enjoy and cherish more than any other 35 years after the first note heard.
Peace,
Brett
Every show that was on the archive was downloaded by someone. Someone who is a part of a community called the deadheads. These shows are all out there, you just have to trade for them. Go to a show, meet people, talk, spread ideas, trade discs instead of tapes. It is not so rough. Not so rough at all. I blame this outcry, not on the dead or it’s heirs and assigns, but on the kind of pot going around. When pot was a lot less potent we would smoke and smoke and still be able to communicate with other deadheads, other humans, and even police officers. We even told jokes and voted. We would gather for days in some ratty apartment and copy cassettes. Many of us met spouses at these gatherings. It was fun, beer flowed. That has now turned into a rather unsightly scenario of a single deadhead alone after midnite, downloading a show while smoking very strong pot that makes him unable to communicate with anyone. Even the dog has run away in fear of another misguided sexual episode. The deadhead becomes fat, detached from any community, he forgets to vote. Cretins step in and take advantage. Nations are invaded. Natural disasters are ignored. Civil rights are removed. Global Warming! Global Warming! Protests are scheduled, but turnout is embarrasingly small. There is no community to call on. No thread holding people together. A once great nation becomes easy prey for opportunists and texans.And worst of all lovely women stand alone seeking a cool guy with a nice tape to listen to on a rainy car ride through the mountains. Maybe it is time to put the bong down, stop complaining that you cannot have everything right now for free, and look around you. PS Anyone who thinks Ramrod was a hanger on is an ass. There would have been no Dead without a core group of people to make amazing things happen in lousy rooms with poor electricity and in the pouring rain. You try putting on a show bong boy! I will buy the downloads.
Possibly all who make a living playing their songs owes the some bucks too??
i will say the same thing here as i posted at the archive…
I have a ticket to an upcoming phil and friends show, guess what? not going anymore. And I was really looking foward to it as this would be my first dead related concert in a few years. Now, I just cant be around that crap. I have also been meaning to buy one of the new box sets with the remastered studio albums. I have bought SEVERAL DVD’s over the past 2-3 years. I WOULD buy some of the downloads but at the price of $30 you guys can forget about that ever happening. SO, with all the dicks picks, buying studio albums for the second, third times (remastered sacd stuff), $75 concert tickets, merchandise (t-shirts, stickers, etc.), DVD’s (winterland, the grateful dead movie, vault series, etc. etc), WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT FROM US!! DAMN!!! People spend more money on you than ANY other band. WTF!!!! The Grateful Dead is a band people listen to their whole lives, and there are reasons for this. This action has scarred the ‘grateful dead’ as everyone knows and i’m going to suspect that the grateful dead is going to lose those loyal fans that believed in them.
I also want to say that as far as the music industry goes; in the 60’s the grateful dead took the music industry 10 steps in the right direction post beatles and stones era, now they have thrown in at all down drain and have taken 100 steps BACK. What they did created the whole ‘jam band’ market where bands can make their name and living off of live performances (which your have to pay to see dont you?). too bad in this buisness they dont get money/credit for doing that besides being the band that people listen to their entire lives and remain loyal and buy new stuff they put out. the work they did in the music industry is PRICELESS. They are doing alot more damage here than what is on the surface.
The Dead vault via iTunes
The long-rumored digitization and “sale” of the Vault looks like it will finally come true as Apple and the Dead work out the terms of a deal to rlease all of the band’s live performances through the iTunes music store. This, if true,…
Man……..if i do a ctrl-f on the word “entitlement” here, it takes forever to get to the bottom of this document……..
Not that anyone is really gonna make any kind of claim to legal entitlement to all that music, (other than those who legally obtained it via the Dead’s original policies regarding recording and trading) nor allow themselves to eternally suffer over its removal, but I certainly would say that anyone who feels “jipped” or seriously let down regarding all this has the right to feel so and without having to feel like they are some “cry baby” or something.
Anyone who has almost unlimited and ongoing access to something very cool and enjoyable would NATURALLY feel all those feelings if someone were to suddenly take it away. To take it away like that is just coldhearted AFTER HAVING ALLOWED IT TO BE AVAILBLE FOR SOOOOO LOOOONG! If they hadn’t allowed it in the first place, no big, but in these circumstances, it’s ridiculous.
I think the vast majority of people don’t have the time nor the inclination to trade tapes or whatever, so all this “stop crying and get back to the old days when one inch of GD tape was coveted more than bread itself” crap rings hollow and pretentious. God bless the people who did the taping and lived that philosophy. They stoked the flames of Dead-enthusiasm and then, as it seems to me based on the *.txt files provided with every show, they continued to stoke those flames, co-mingling it with an enthusiasm for digital technology. They didn’t hoard it and didn’t take the approach that if taping/trading/digitizing wasn’t your hobby, you weren’t worth the tape the music was recorded on. It seems to me that they freely gave. That’s a good example for us all – charity coupled with passion. They are the ultimate producers and promoters of 2 great things in our society. If it wasn’t for them, not only would I not have a couple dozen great old Dead shows, but I probably wouldn’t have had a clue what Shorten and FLAC were all about.
I just hope that whatever profits are realized on the sale of the future official downloads are only used charitably for some good causes. I don’t believe this is about keeping 2 or 3 people employed, so I sure hope it’s about feeding and clothing needy people.
Anyway, that’s my opinion, and I’m ENTITLED to it.
Sure there is some greed on this side of the equation. Archive.org spoiled us by offering great sounding shows, available 24/365. But how does cutting off access to these shows improve the financial position of GDP/GDM? Anyone who’s seen “Roger and Me” knows that layoffs have never done anything to improve the financial position of a company in trouble.
And as bad as I feel about RamRod, it was hardly the job of the fans to keep his ass employed. Maybe if the Dead had hired a new lead guitarist and kept on touring, this wouldn’t have been a problem. Grateful Dead/The Dead have stopped touring. How is that our fault? Honestly, how can any employee of GDP – even someone as beloved as RamRod – expect to remain employed as a roadie, ten years after the Dead stopped touring?
If you’re REALLY going to open the vault and digitize it, more power to you. But at least tell us what your plan is and PLEASE follow the livephish.com model, whereby you never actually plan on making any real money and instead try to raise some cash for Rex Foundation or whatever cause/org GDM determines is worthy. And give discounts for whole tours/multiple shows purchased. Be reasonable, or I think I speak for everyone when I say, it’s over. You’ve lost this battle and pissed off many of the people who love you the most.
More importantly than anything else, at least give us access back to the AUD tapes. You don’t own these and in fact owe your success in large part to the Oades and Millers, etc. who gave enough of a care to record them and make them sound their very best. While I agree that the faceless distribution of archive.org is not ideal, deadheads can and do build powerful relationships over the web. Please let us continue to so, while spreading the music we so love. Thanks.
I got one thing to say to the GDP and vault keepers:
Bring It On!
especially the 60s
You’ve sat on it this music way too long
Hi David,
As you know more than most, we are all an interconnected family that stretches in both directions for 4 decades. But now I find myself sitting in front of a once open door at the family home and wondering why it was closed and locked. It hurts to be shut out so suddenly with no explanation.
If the band is in financial trouble, they should tell us. I would gladly halt all comp CDs sent to the magazine and buy them instead if it would help. We’ve done so with other bands. And I think we all would do what we could to help. It’s what a family does.
So we will keep our petition online as a plea to the band to treat us as the family we all once were and can be again. And we will also continue to support the Grateful Dead in thanks for the loving memories while we wait for an answer as to why this door has closed.
Peace and Light to All,
Dave Terpeny
Editor
KyndMusic.com
I agree with alot of the points made here. I must say though, i was always surprised to the grateful dead on the archive since they are such a big band and you know it would get out of hand quick. the first time i saw it there were about 2,000+ dead shows or so. and that is totally putting them in financial jeopardy?????? we unintentionally took advantage of this great policy that started years ago. however, what is the deal with removing the guitar tab/chord sites? are those owned by warner now too?? thats some bullshit. the music industry is getting more and more corrupt. and you know its this corrupt when all of these light shedding musicians are doing stuff like this. final word about this here, please make the pay downloads a reasonable price for crying out loud! especially those 60’s recordings. clean them up and make them sound really nice and charge no more than $10 a show for all formats and quality levels. however if this is decided by warner, it’s hopeless.
I dunno but I was underwhelmed by the Sbds I listened to over at Archive.org. Alot of times the mix sucked with bobby in the foreground (not that there’s anything wrong with it) or the drums dominating the mix. I’d pay for anything that was clean & balanced but I won’t pay $16 for mp3’s…
I really think this new policy change reflects the greedy nature of GDM. Like many here who have been to hundreds of shows with the boys, it is hard to believe how things have evolved over the past 10 years. I think the Deadhead community would like to continue supporting the organization, however, it is a two-way street in which both sides need respect for each other. I donÕt see this anymore.
For example, consider the pricing of their live downloads compared to other similar bands that many of us listen to:
String Cheese Incident:
MP3- $9.95 (128)
FLAC – $14.95
Phish:
MP3 – $9.95 (128)
FLAC – $12.95
Grateful Dead:
MP3 – $15.99 (128)
MP3 – $16.75 (256)
FLAC – $19.90
These are average prices so some may be more/less based on the duration of the show, however, I think it is evident that the Dead charge significantly higher than the others for a show. A lot of folks feel that GDM is now taking advantage of the us the community with these ridiculous prices. I think it will take a lot for them to regain our respect.
This has probably already been said…….or maybe it’s too obvious….but the whole thing about listening to shows online, or in the car, or at home…..it’s all about the vibe….it’s about making a connection, being there, reliving the memories affiliated with the feeling of being at a show…..it’s transporting. And in this era of ever increasing restrictions, this statement feels, honestly, more like a Bobby move and really out of synch with what Jerry would have wanted…….after a while…..they (the Dead, formerly Grateful) should just let it go……they had their ride, it’s over……now give it away. You can’t box it up and sell it……if they do……it’s no longer them…..it’s become something else.
Peace.
David – I pretty much see it the same as you. For my money, I do not see that this has changed the attitude of free and unfettered trading of music. They have a right, as do all of us, to make a profit from their hard work. I did not, and will not, sign what I believe to be a mean-spirited petition. I went to many shows, and always liked the atmosphere of brotherhood. I am saddened by many of the comments about this.
http://knockinonthegoldendoor.mu.nu/archives/135245.php
Cowboy Up, Fer Chrissake!
I think I have gotten maxed out in two short days over the whinging and crying of alleged “Deadheads” over the removal of files from The Archive. I have never heard such a display of mean-spirited, stingy, and downright crybaby…
David- While i understand that the Grateful Dead business organization has certain financial obligations to it’s employees, bottom line, etc.,
one of the primary links between the band and their community,the “unbroken chain”,is the free exchange of their music. Not pirate recordings of official releases, but tapes made,with the permission of the band,using the tapers own equipment.Once the permission was given to make and trade those recordings,i find it rather hypocritical to recind that “gentlemans agreement”just because times are tough.That was one of the things that made me admire Jerry’s later work;he seemed to be a troubled, broken man that was still graceful and giving in defeat.It gave me hope.These latest developments do not.
As far as I know, the only thing that has changed is that the massive, free, high-speed online distribution scheme has been discontinued. Trading seems to be thriving all ovverthe place otherwise.
Well, if the iTunes thing is true, or some other similar digitized vault will be available for download, I just hope it’s possible to get lossless downloads. I’m happy to pay for a high quality SBD, but only if it hasn’t been through the MP3/AAC grinder.
David- I don’t really consider it a distribution “scheme”. It just seems to me that the archive levelled the playing field between the workaday fan and the heirarchy that develops in the more serious trading circles.Take care, my friend.
Yes, I understand that.
And I’m not necessarily even defending the decision – just trying to offer some perspective from a vantage point that is not exactly inside, but not exactly outside, either.
I know what you mean about those hierarchies of traders. But there are plenty of kind folks who will share the bounty without being dicks about it. The WELL ( http://www.well.com ) is one – we’ve been meeting and talking and sharing there for almost twenty years now.
Another is gdh-trading@yahoogroups.com
EXACTLY, David. I think it takes a person who is self-employed and responsible for the welfare of an entire organization AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE to understand how hard it is to bring in an income and keep that machine grinding away day after day, year after year. I believe that a lot of this sentiment we are seeing is from people who haven’t a clue about this. I’m not saying they are all wrong, but I think ignorance of business ownership plays a part.
OTOH, like you, the organization should do a press release explaining that decision. After forty years of hard work and dedication to the fans, the fans owe it to the surviving bandmembers and their loyal employees to help see that they are not all broken and living gracefully in defeat. They deserve our utmost support.
Does this remind anyone else of the incidents recorded in Festival Express where the audience expected to be allowed into the show for free?
I signed the third petition. And I noticed that Justin Kreutzmann did as well.
Xian – Do you have a link to info about that incident?
The archive was a truly wonderful thing which allowed us music lovers to share in an experience only had by persons who worked for or with the Grateful Dead for many years. Granted we were not physically there at the shows while listening but one was able to use ones imagination. It would have been damn hard to listen to all the music on the archive in ones lifetime anyway. The thing is all good things must come to an end. Such is the nature of the beast. We must come to accept this because there is nothing we can do about it save boycotting (which is not the right thing to do). Everyone wants somthing for free and that is just what we had and it was real good while it lasted. This is kind of a love lost for many of us and as you all know “breaking up is hard to do” but it must be done. If you had a good time listining to the music you profited and that is what The Grateful Dead set out to do from the beginning, like it or not. So just let things be, everything will reveal itself in time. Perhaps this move will prove to be a big mistake made by the responsable party or parties and things may be re-thought.
Well said, Greg.
David Gans’ Utterly Predictable Response
David Gans has posted his response to the shutdown of Archive.org’s live Grateful Dead archives. Not only does he offer up the unsuprising moans of fan “entitlement” and accusations of greed on the part of Joe Deadhead, he actually claims to “not have …
I signed the 1st petition out of anger. I signed this one when I saw it on Mark’s blog because I am also grateful. I think I can be both. I am both. I don’t own many SBD’S (why take the aud. recordings?) but I did actively trade back in the day, the traditional way. I don’t mind doing it again. What I DO mind is the feeling of being shut out by the band. I wish SOMEONE would post a comment to the community. Entitlement? Is it so wrong to feel we might be considered for some sort of explanation?
A box of rain will ease the pain –
Peace………….
PS-Enjoyed seeing you at Gathering
I am sure soneone else here brought this up already, but I am a little upset that Gans is lining up deadhead “entitlement” next to the firing of RamRod… I have a question specifically about this topic: The Grateful Dead were ONE band that paid RamRod for his road crew duties since the sixtites, but now there are no less than THREE regularly touring Dead spinoffs and nobody needs RamRod’s services anymore because of free soundboards on the internet????
That’s a huge load of crap, Mr. Gans, and you know it.
Joe F asks a reasonable question, confrontational tone notwithstanding. I don’t know why Ram Rod isn’t working for Ratdog or Phil and Friends (I think he did work on some of the earlier P&F tours, but there are quite a few former Lesh associates). What’s the third “regularly touring Dead spinoff”?
Helen wrote, “Is it so wrong to feel we might be considered for some sort of explanation?”
Not at all! I wish the organization would make a statement explaining what the hell is going on.
I am disgusted by the hate filled name calling I have seen on the net over this. THE BAND gave us so much. I continue to support them in any decision they make. This decision does not tip the scales in the grand scheme of things. GD offered up so much goodness – it far outweighs this disappointment. They have their reasons. It does not seem unfair to me…
Many folks should be ashamed of the shit they are spewing over this…
THANK YOU GRATEFUL DEAD!
http://www.petitiononline.com/gd420247/petition.html
Can you answer? Yes I can,
but what would be the answer to the answer man?
ThereÕs something in the legal world called Òcontempt prior to investigationÓ. Before we boycott Grateful Dead Merchandising we need to know the answers to some important questions. If anyone knows anyone in the organization, please pass them along and let them know we need answers! David, do you have any anwers? Someone needs to come forward and make a statement from GDP.
Who is behind removing the shows from Live Music Archive?
What is Grateful Dead MerchandisingÕs official statement about the removal of shows?
Who is making the statement?
What are the long-term plans regarding Grateful Dead music availability on Live Music Archive?
Who profits from Grateful Dead Merchandising?
Do they deserve to profit from selling the music of the Grateful Dead?
Will boycotting GDM get the shows put back up or cause more harm than good?
Why don’t we just give Alabama
rope enough to hang himself?
Ain’t no call to worry the jury
His kind takes care of itself
I totally disagree with folk’s condemnation of those who might express some disagreement and even suggest boycotting GDM over their new live recording trading policy. This is the same bullshit game the Republicans are playing with those who might question the war in Iraq Ð they are immediately condemned and called unpatriotic. This is America and everyone has the right to express his/her opinion! Is it really your belief that this disagreement merits attacks towards those making them?
Like many others, I have been to hundreds of shows and spent lots of money on their recordings and merchandise over the years. My expenditures directly to the band on Dead-related products and services have easily exceeded 10K (probably much more). I didnÕt mind doing this because I knew the band had similar ethics that I did (e.g., giving back to the community and charitable organizations). With these recent changes, folks are questioning the business interests of GDM lately and whether they are entirely profit motivated. That may be the case and certainly no one is telling you not to buy products from a company whose agenda may now be to maximize their bottom-line. But some of us have issues with this. Personally, I donÕt have a problem with their new policy Ð they are free to do what they want. However, because of this I probably wonÕt buy a whole lot from GDM going forward. And I donÕt think it has anything to do with our love for the Grateful Dead Ð their music will certainly live on forever. Just my 2 centsÉ
we all know what side of your bread is buttered on Dave, and that must suck to be you. (you know, having to kiss ass all the time.)
anyways, it’s not that i’m greedy (nor ungrateful), i’ve only downloaded two shows from archive.org, and those were for a friend.
it’s about what the dead WAS supposed to be all about, they were the leaders, now the other bands are going to see what they’ve done (SELL OUT), and say, the dead did it, so can we.
Archi
David has one HELL of a lot more tolerance than I have at my blog for some of the absolutely insulting comments I am reading here. My hat’s off to you, Dave. I can’t believe some of the stuff I’ve read around this issue in the past three or four days. It’s astoundingly asinine and childish.
DG, I apologize for my tone… it was written in the heat of passion, and I restrained myself considerably, IMHO. To answer your question, the “third” spinoff could be any of the following: The Other Ones, The Dead & the Further Festivals. I believe Ratdog was touring before Jerry’s demise anyway, so I am unclear, and maybe you can enlighten us, as to whether RR had a job with them pre-1995.
I stand by my (possibly baseless) position that Rod was not let go due to GDM’s loss of revenue due to the Archive’s seeds of SDB shows.
And I, like many fans of the Dead, have not shied away from spending money on the Dick’s Picks series since its inception. I have purchased about half of them and will likely purchase more. I even purchased the wonderful 11/1/85 DP, despite just criticisms of the mix on that product and despite owning at two other sources provided on the Archive. I really feel that the position you asserted regarding the band’s financial situation vs. the availability of SDB sources on the Archive is reaching, at best. Perhaps the truth that you don’t want to believe is that many of the Dead’s extended family memebers live in one of the most expensive regions in the country (San Francisco/Marin) and have seen diminishing returns on what was once a significant yearly income. I can sympathize… living in NJ, I have seen my property taxes skyrocket over the past decade. I don’t, however, feel that the solution to this problem is biting the hand that bakes their bread. Might I suggest that people who are accustomed to certain lifestyle may be unable or unwilling to “simplify”? Just a theory.
David – thanks for the open forum to discuss this. I have to say, my only gripe about this move to remove SBDs isn’t the removal itself, but the silence with respect to why from those who did so. I think that we were VERY lucky to have those available for as long as we did – I was like a kid in a candy store on archive.org for a while, downloading the shows I always wished I had a high quality recording of. The boys in the band were very generous in allowing that to happen for as long as it did! It’s their right to remove it if they feel they’d be better off doing something else with the music, free or not. I just feel a bit weird about the sudden and unexplained vanishing of the music. I’ll be first in line to pay a few bucks next time I want to hear a SBD of a Dark Star that someone recommends to me, but right now, I’m not sure what’s going on.
Joe F: no need to apologize. We’re here to talk about it, and a little heat is understandable.
I take issue with the thrust of your comments because you appear to be making some pretty serious assumptions about the motivations, attitudes, and lifestyles of the musicians we have admired and respected for so long. It’s just plain rude to suggest, as you (and many others) seem to be doing, that the removal of the archive and the downsizing of the organization are greedy, self-serving actions on the part of the band. What troubles me about this controversy – and I am not blaming you in particular, but observing the traffic all over the online Deadhead universe, is how readily the fans changed their tone. The GD were heroes until the big fat pipe of free music was shut off, and now they’re loathsome, greedy bastards? That’s not fair.
WE DON’T KNOW exactly what is going on here. As Matt said in his post that follows yours, the lack of any explanation is troublesome.
Are we entitled to free music forever? I don’t think so. Are we entitled to an explanation? Hell, yes. And I fault the GD organization for once again failing to respect their loyal fans enough to tell us what’s going on.
I am told Dennis McNally will be issuing a statement, probably later this week. I hope it’s sufficient to quell the unrest and get us all back on the same page.
David,
Dennis McNally’s statement. or lack thereof, add’s fuel to idea that your comment’s are part of the “establishment” so to speak. The appeal of the LMA to me was ACCESS to the music. With all due respect to the band that brought us the wall of sound in 1974, a bunch of individuals uploaded all this music in a short time. I would gladly pay for access to the vault… if there was any.
NO entitlement here… just lust for more music
I think GDM should lay everyone off – it’s been a real fun trip, but it is time to get another job. Jerry is Dead, and the rest cannot continue to pay the salaries/benefits they once did. In fact, if the people within the organization had any community sense at all they would leave willingly. Instead, the fans lose what was always available, so the GDM employees can keep getting a paycheck, WTF?? Without us fans there would be NO GDM, Period!
Hell Hath No Fury…
Some Deadheads are turning on their favorite band over access to free music. It isn’t pretty.
Having never emailed David Gans I found myself emailing him the morning so many of us awoke to hear and see those precious SBDs taken down. The attitude David Gans has gotten is really disgusting, is there anyone that has turned more people onto this great music, especially post JerryÕs death than David Gans? I wish people would give him the respect he deserves.
I really struggled to deal with this decision to pull the boards down. The live music of the Grateful Dead to me was always free to me, pre-Internet it was about buying cassettes and trading with people locally. The thought that it was now wrong to download SBDs and listen to them according to GDM just made me sick to my soul. ItÕs just so poor that they have not made a statement still yet, I think they really need to explain themselves. Obviously if the entire ÒvaultÓ is to be sold online by them there are some serious questions Ð such as how will they be sure that what the sell was created by members of the organization and not by fans. Or will they sell shows patched with AUD sources, or even SBD sources that were made by average Deadheads? The music is free until 2005 and what is left of the organization can make profit over recordings made by fans? See without any statement we can only assume what the logic is behind this move.
But what is the trading policy? Is it ok by GDM to trade SBDs in any format? If they are telling me itÕs wrong to download boards then itÕs wrong for me to spin my dusty copy of 5/8/77 to turn someone on to this great music that has never heard a Grateful Dead show. This would kill much of the meaning of the music.
But for GDM the question I have for them is this. We (Deadheads) did purchase commercial releases. I pre-ordered Rockin Rhein. Where is the organization at in terms of mastering all the multi-track recordings? I have no idea what is left to be mastered but if those resources are not completely exhausted I am disappointed Ð those would be something that could really benefit both camps. What about existing video? That 2nd disk of the Grateful Dead DVD was just brilliant. I just hope they havenÕt given up new truly worthwhile projects to just sit on the now digital vault bring in revenue.
-Daniel
Well an interesting turn of events :
Barlow on death of Grateful Dead music sharing, fans protest
“Archive.org has been forced to take down over 1000 soundboard recordings of the Grateful Dead by Jerry’s wife and a few (perhaps one) remaining member of the band.”
John Perry Barlow, EFF co-founder and former Grateful Dead lyricist, tells Boing Boing:
You have no idea how sad I am about this. I fought it hammer and tong, but the drummers had inoperable bricks in their head about it.
What’s worse is that they now want to remove all Dead music from the Web. They might as easily put a teaspoon of food coloring in a swimming pool and then tell the pool owner to get it back to them.
It’s like finding out that your brother is a child molester. And then, worse, having everyone then assume that you’re a child molester too. I’ve been called a hypocrite in three languages already.
How magnificently counter-productive of them. It’s as if the goose who laid the golden egg had decided to commit suicide so that he could get more golden eggs.
This is just the beginning of the backlash, I promise you.
This is worse than the RIAA suing their customers.”
Tho not an official statement from the band but at least it’s a start.
David, I appreciate your position that we should wait to hear from GDM before casting stones here, but I think its a little naive to assume that all of our “heroes” are without common flaws that the rest of us possess. The position you assert is very similar to that of a person who believes professional athletes or politicians must be “better” than everyone else, and then the person is shocked to find out that the “hero” uses drugs or beats his wife. I am also baffled by the report of financial straits of the company that you have suggested. Considering, like I said, that I still and will continue to spend $$ on vault releases and DVDs, and I can’t be the only one (look at the huge array of “products” available in the Almanac), it is very hard to believe the revenue stream has dried up.
I guess I am just expecting the worst, in hopes that I will pleasantly suprised when GDM comes up with some reasonable scheme to allow easy access and not gouge everyone in the process. I am not counting on it, because I can comprehend the vastness of the Dead’s family and what it must take to support it, especially (like I said earlier) living and working where many of them do.
The other thing has only been touched on lightly is that fans were the ones who lovingly patched (using AUD sources), restored, remixed and remastered those beautiful shows in lossless formats like FLAC & SHN. That’s all gone. And last time I checked, GDM’s “Download Series” does not provide these formats. That’s a shame.
Thank you for posting the Barlow quotes, Steve.
David,
It is not suprising that someone who has provided nothing artistically and who has LEECHED from the Grateful Dead for his living would try to provide a lame justification for this action. There is no justification and there are no legal grouds to try to reclaim what has been in the public domain for many years. I suggest you and the other head LEECH, Dennis McNally,stop spreading your propoganda. You’re starting to sound like the Bush administration. How dare you defend your livelihood with this hypocritical, self serving, kiss ass statement. I have nothing but pity for you as you have obviously sold out any integrity you might have had years ago.
David- Boy,they really spun your words in that rolling stone thing, didn’t they?i feel bad for you,i feel bad for me,for the band…for everyone. Jerry’s death left a lot of frustration and hurt and anger just below the surface.It has come out over the last ten years in many unusual ways.You could feel a bad wind blowing on the last few tours;it seems to be kicking up again. Grateful Dead music is a way to look deep inside yourself.i hope no one loses sight of that.see ya
The real problem is Koons. She displayed her real colors when she went against Jerry’s wishes and cut-off John Kahn – in essence, killing him. If she does not care about Jerry’s long-time friend, why would she care about the fans? Unfortunately, the bottom line seems more important that the fanbase – such is life.
The GD have been in my life for 25 years, and I will allways have fond memories. But, I refuse to have to beg the royal tapers for shows when they were available for nothing at Archive. The best thing about Archive (other than the access) was taking the Heady tapers out of the picture. If you were around in the “old days” you will remember – if you didn’t know a taper you were never going to get good quality recordings, period. Then, the Archive comes along and equalizes everyone!!! I know one thing’s for sure – this move will STOP the new generations of fans from ever happening. That is a shame.
As far as I’m concerned any money spent at GDM is more money that goes to Koons – no thank you. I tolerated this fact for the last 10 years, but will no longer give that %$@^%* one more dime. I hope the rest of the boys will figure this out.
David: I appreciate your attempts at a thoughtful discussion of this issue, but think you missed the larger point. What pulled most of us into the Dead scene in the first place was their approach to taping and trading. Yes, internet downloads are not ÒtapesÓ in the literal sense. Nonetheless, there has been a tacit understanding between the band and its fans for decades: the band releases albums, sells tickets and merchandise; the fans buy said product and, if so inclined, freely trade recordings of the concerts. This has served both sides quite well. IÕve been a fan since my sophomore year in high school Ð 1973 Ð and have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the band in the intervening years Ð and as one who has never been more than a middle-class wage slave those dollars were not thrown around lightly. Yes, GDM has a legal right to do with the music as they see fit. However, I, as a long time fan, also have a right Ð the right to react negatively to a change in the tacit agreement that has governed our relationship all these years. If Òthe drummersÓ decide to tighten the clamps, so be it. They have every right to do so. Just as I have every right to decide I have contributed my last dollar to GDM.
In addition to today’s Rolling Stone news article, it looks like NY Times has also picked up on the story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/30/arts/music/30dead.html
I am glad that Barlow was able to shed a little light on the situation and eagerly await more news from the band.
A long, long time ago…
I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And, maybe, theyÕd be happy for a while.
But august came and it made me shiver
With the very thought that he has left here…
Bad news on the doorstep;
I just couldnÕt take even one more step.
I remember how I cried
When I read about his early demise,
But something touched me deep inside
The day the music died.
So bye-bye, free music bye bye.
they took away the music
and left us high & dry
And them good old boys were playinÕ all night
SinginÕ, “this is the way we should dance…
“feelin’ life was given another chance…”
Did you write the book of love,
And do you have faith in God above,
If the Bible tells you so?
Do you believe in rock Õn roll,
Can music save your mortal soul,
And can you teach me how to dance real slow?
Well, I know that we’re all in love with him
`cause I saw you dancinÕ in the gym.
You both kicked off your shoes.
Man, I dig those rhythm and blues.
I was a trippin’ teenage long haired kid
With a paisley pants and a dayglo truck,
But I knew that we were out of luck
The day they took the music away…
I started singinÕ,
So bye-bye, free music bye bye.
they took away the music
and left us high & dry
And them good old boys were playinÕ all night
SinginÕ, “this is the way we should dance…
“feelin’ life was given another chance…”
Now for ten years weÕve been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rollinÕ stone,
But thatÕs not how it used to be.
When the jester sang for the all with glee,
In a thought he borrowed from Bob Dylan
And a voice that came from you and me,
Oh, and while the king was looking down,
The jester stole his own spotlight.
The audience twirled and spun
they just danced until the dawn.
And while lennon sang his Revolution,
The band just practiced in the park,
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died.
so We were singing,
bye-bye, free music bye bye.
they took away the music
and left us high & dry
And them good old boys were playinÕ all night
SinginÕ, “this is the way we should dance…
“feelin’ life was given another chance…”
Helter skelter in a august swelter.
We all flew off with a fallout shelter,
Eight miles high and falling fast.
It landed foul on the mass.
The players tried for a forward pass,
With the jester on the sidelines without a last.
Now the Furthur-time air was sweet perfume
While the band played a familiar tunes.
We all got up to dance,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
`cause the players tried to take the field;
The Furthur band refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died?
We started singing,
So bye-bye, free music bye bye.
they took away the music
and left us high & dry
And them good old boys were playinÕ all night
SinginÕ, “this is the way we should dance…
“feelin’ life was given another chance…”
Oh, and there we were all in one place,
A generation lost in space
With no time left to start again.
So come on: Bob be nimble, Phil be quick!
Mickey Hart sat on a candlestick
Cause fire on the mountain would make us groove
Oh, and as I watched them on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No angel born in hell
Could break that satanÕs spell.
And as the flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite,
I saw satan laughing with delight
The day the music died
He was singing,
So bye-bye, free music bye bye.
we’ll take away the music
and leave ya high & dry
And them good old boys that were playinÕ all night
You know that had to be a lie…
they never played all night long…
I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news,
But she just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the sacred store
Where IÕd heard the music years before,
But the man there said the music wouldnÕt play.
And in the streets: the children screamed,
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
The hearts amany, all were broken.
And the man I admire most:
(((Jerry Garcia))) I raise a toast,
He caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died.
And they were singing,
So bye-bye, free music bye bye.
they took away the music
and left us high & dry
And them good old boys were playinÕ all night
SinginÕ, “this is the way we should dance…
“feelin’ life was given another chance…
Having just read McNally’s coments in NY Times all I can say is I hope this isn’t the official statement we’ve been waiting for.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/30/arts/music/30dead.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1133316210-MEuN0Q6B4wLrtHrrVWT/Zw
He basically claims the shows were pulled because having them on Archive wasn’t ‘building comunity’ and that the site didn’t represent ‘Grateful Dead values’.
As if pimping them for $20 a shot, you supply the disks,covers and artwork, was going to better ‘build community’.
What a load of crapola. Bad enough they treat us as mere consumers, now they treat us as stupid ones.
Shame on you guys.
David,
Its seems no-one has raised the issue of shows that are missing from the Vault. I remember Dick stating that many shows are missing, especially the early 80’s, one of my favorite periods. By taking the AUDs of these shows off Archive, many folks will be deprived of this music, sans old school trading. I have no problem paying for Dick’s picks or downloads, but most of 1982 is not in the vault, so those shows will never be offered. Dick’s pick’s 32 is the exception, and most Auds are much better. Additionally, I love listening to certain shows that are not perfect. You mentioned the “beginning of the end” at Ventura in 1983, and while I agreed at the time, many 1983 shows are a joy to listen to, but will also probably never be offered as well, because of Jerry problems. But isn’t this what made our experience as deadheads so great? To be able to appreciate the good w/ the bad? But is anyone truly going to pay for a show that may only have a few sparkling moments in it? And if no-one is going to pay for it, does that mean it is now worthless? I don’t think so.
Anyway, I’m also waiting on the official statement before I draw any conclusions. Just my thoughts at this time.
When Deadheads wanted to hear the Dead on the radio, David Gans stepped up.
When Deadheads wanted to know more about the Dead, its members and their histories and families, McNalley wrote “Long Strange Trip”.
When Deadheads are no longer able to get free downloads off of the Archive, they call Gans and McNalley “leeches” of the Dead family after stating the obvious: That accusations of greed by Dead fans have a mirror image in the current attitude of some fans themselves.
This is a sad time indeed for the Dead community.
Are there any other lawyers or law students out there that see a problem here?? When someone owns a recording of a Dead show (owns, with no “licensing” restrictions or anything else), that all the band members have explicitly abandoned as being their own (read- abandoned property–remember the rule of finders?), how can the band or its agents decide to restrict access to it after it’s been posted in a public forum? I realize that many traditional property concepts don’t apply in IP cases, but I know that express relinquishment does. If it’s just a matter of the Internet Archive people respecting the wishes of the band, why don’t they get some balls (and some legal advice) and tell the GD “tuff turds!” If the GD decides to sue, what are they going to sue for? Do they have a copyright on each show? I’m not sure that they do. What are the damages? How can it be enforced against a website that absolutley doesn’t charge a penny for the music. Too many issues. If anyone can respond who knows more about this and who reads this (I do labor and employment litigation), please do.
Another intesting thing to consider are the new “matrix” recordings.
FYI – Deadheads take the SBD and compliment it with an AUD providing a great sound from both outside and inside the system at once. 5/8/77 is a great example the person used two other AUD sources and created something that is just above and beyond the straight SBD. There were a handful of these recordings on achive.org before they were pulled but I scored a few more in the past few days and they are AMAZING. 😉
I wonder if this is the future of Grateful Dead shows – people creating these great maxtrix recordings that beat what the Grateful Dead officially sells of the same show (straight SBD digitally) and Deadheads trade shows illegally against the bands wishes.
PS – We made NYTimes and Rolling Stone – we are famous I tell you!
David,
Considering how strong Phil’s endorsement is of the LMA I feel you owe all those who criticized the banning of LMA an apology. Your “entitled Deadhead” comments have been used for a week by alot of people. After reading the Barlow and Phil comments it seems that your initial response was, as we say, dead-ass wrong. You had it completly wrong. Unless of course you represent the Debra koons faction that endorses the Sue Doug Irwin mindset. I love the dead hour radio show I still have cassetes of it I just think the LMA evened the playing field and made everyone a friend of Dan Healy…not just a select few
From NYT article:
“In particular, fans have expressed outrage that the shift covers not only the semiofficial “soundboard” recordings made by technicians at the band’s performances, but also recordings made by audience members.”
What a load of bull. The “technicians” used to throw out a line so people could patch in – these recording belong to the TAPERS, not the band. The Vault is missing many shows that Deadheads have, and now they are claiming ownership over IP that they basically gave away for free. WTF?
Editor’s note: This message appears under the link “11.30 Update Message” on the front page of phillesh.net
http://www.phillesh.net/
It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead’s legacy and I hope that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart listening to Jerry’s poetic guitar and sweet voice.
We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed us to play “without a net”. Your love, trust and patience made it possible for us to try again the next show when we couldn’t get that magic carpet off the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed.
– Phil
I have so much respect for Phil right now. I want to thank him for speaking out. It’s good to know there is someone up there that we can still trust. Thats all I needed to know. My heart is at ease today.
I also wonder whether the band has supplemented its vault collection with digital copies of the missing shows that were assembled for the archive?
I feel vindicated that Phil was always my favorite. A true mensch. Jerry was the public face, but face it, they really had a duet going on up there with Phil leading us to the musical places we’d never imagined. As for the other remaining members (until we hear from them otherwise): phooey and a pox on all your houses! It’s to hell in a bucket with them. Hope they enjoy the ride.
Another thought comes to mind. A quote I heard on NPR by Giorgio Gomelsky, the original promoter of the Rolling Stones in their early bluesy days. Of their musical and cultural devolution through the 70s and beyond, he had this to say:”They turned into a bunch of bourgeois nincompoops.” Bourgeois is one thing. It’s the cultural virus of the late 20th and early 21st centuries and there is seemingly no vaccine. But it’s the nincompoop angle of this whole thing that drives me to want a padded cell. If you’re going to be a ueber-bourgeois ex-member of the Grateful Dead, at least do it with a modicum of guilt. But to behave just like every other corporate nincompoop? As Joseph Welch put it so well in the 1950s, speaking to Joseph McCarthy, “Until this moment, I think I never really gauged your … recklessness. … You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?”
Here is the petition:
Grateful Dead music inspires in its fans an extraordinary passion, hence this news of pulling the archive is breaking the heart of thousands of people today. We see the Grateful Dead historically as a representation of something pure and good. In order to love something so much, you have to trust it. Despite the stereotypes and social mockery, we have proudly remained fans of the Grateful Dead for all these years, defending it and ourselves because we knew in our heart that this music we are following is good, and pure. Some say we have no right to protest this mid-game Ôchanging of the rules.Õ But what those people are not accounting for is the MILLIONS of hours that Deadheads have collectively spent in combining, uploading, remastering, patching flawed recordings…..voluntarily, and out of love, and trusting that it would be shared freely. In our opinion, at this point to stop the free sharing of these recordings is so sad, and so wrong. Jerry is gone, and he has no say, and we all know what he would have said. This is unfair to us. So much work has gone into building the archive. Please let it stand.
You can sign it here:
http://new.petitiononline.com/02108108/petition.html
This is such a slap in the face to Jerry’s memory and to John Perry Barlow, who besides being one of the lyricists for the Dead is a founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an organization that has fought tooth and nail to keep the internet free and open, created the notion of “creative commons” and helped establish the internet archive.
This is Bob Weir’s doing, not Phil Lesh’s.
Being that Bob was raised in Atherton, Ca., an enclave for the superrich next to Palo Alto (Larry Ellison lives in Atherton), Bob is just coming home to roost.
Many hippies would like to think that because the Dead made the music that they love, that the Dead are hippies too. That might have been the case for Jerry and Phil (an artist with an honorary PhD from Stanford), but Bob was born with a diamond-encrusted silver spoon up his rectum. Of course, they were all wealthy because of the band, but they were artists first and foremost. I know a few folks that know Bob, including somebody from RatDog, his solo band. Bob Weir is and always was a spoiled rich kid for whom this whole “strange trip” always was about the money. He has the arrogance to match. Of course now that they are taking a hit on concert tickets, they (Bob) are trying to monetize their recordings.
As is, Bob Weir is just milking the last of the Dead legacy dry, and touring with Jerry “sound alikes” as opposed to really moving forward with his music. He could easily live for years on end on the money he has and never feel a pinch or keep on making a name for himself as an artist with current art. He’d rather
rest on his often coked-out (this I say from talking to folks that know) ass and rehash old songs that will never be the same because Jerry isn’t alive to give those songs (even Bob’s songs) their magic. He just doesn’t have the creative juice to be original and relevant anymore, if he ever did. Without Jerry’s tutelage, it’s not obvious he would have lasted long enough in public memory to have the option of pissing on his fans 30 something years later.
Bob betrayed his fans years ago, and only now they are catching on.
“Sad Hippie” indeed.
Yeah, I know a guy who knows a guy, too.
But more to the point, I know Bob Weir. And Phil Lesh. And the members of Ratdog.
I don’t have the stomach to refute your vile spew point by point, so let’s leave at at this: you’re full of shit.
David:
http://www.dead.net allowed it’s users to tree soundboards years before there was an archive.org. that’s been up for 3 years.
The only difference I see in trading 10 years ago and now is the method of delivery has been organized and sped up incredibly (and the fact that Jerry is gone). I don’t have an issue with people trying to make a living, but I’ve bought every vault release and pick even though i’ve had almost every one in pristine quality (typically – including 9/21/82 and the Fillmore run). There are people like us around – fewer now though i suspect.
I don’t know what this talk is of sense of entitlement is, but let’s face it, trading soundboards has been around forever. People like Lemieux interviewed for the Compendium series. After the three books and the addendum – was there some confusion still about the soundboards? They were covered in great detail in those books, type of tape, who recorded etc etc. When people do something for 20-25 years like trading boards, it’s not entitlement. It’s a fact. Boards were treed on DNC, the Deads own website. That’s a fact. Folders discuss the shows ad infinitum on their site. That’s a fact too. There’s been a cottage industry on the Dead in terms of books (with yourself included) who discuss tapes and trading and soundboards in one way shape or form. That’s a fact too.
This is about money and nothing else. If you want revenue get some sharp people to put together a good business plan and open up the vaults more for download and be more innovative with the product. One a month is a pittance. Release runs. Open up the entire vault for download. It should be all digital by now :)’
This was a major faux pas by the band members and their management. It’s not the SONY rootkit – but considering who it is – it’s just as bad.
Frankly I don’t give a rip about the boards – I’ve got everything i want on DAT or CD and in pristine quality. This action is going to make me think before i decide to purchase in the future and I’ll always question their motives now. That’s sad if you think what this community was 10 years ago, or even 33 years ago when i saw my first show.
I can’t not love Bob. I will always love him. But I disagree with this action, and strongly. I am attempting to point out that so much work of so many people went into building this archive, and for that reason it’s unfair to take it apart.
I’ve been downloading dead music and trading from the start, I was on e-tree way back when and this notion that those of us who download the deads music as anti-social is so sterotypical it hurts. Most of the music I dowloaded from etree and elsewhere where duped and given to my less computer literate dead-buds over and over again. I remember taking a guy who really dug Brent’s keyboarding on a magical tour of the Pig Pen era and watching him just explode with excitement.
I’m not a poor college kid anymore, and I’m more than willing to pay per recording or a membership fee to dowload dead shows. As long as I can continue to listen to them before I pay for them.
Well, things, as they always do, have revealed themselves. I feel that all the bitching has proven to have made an impact on things for the better. I do however repudiate the foul tone a lot of you were taking. So, to all you fake hippies out there, YOU ARE ALL DICKS. You should re-evaluate your tactless reactions and embrace a more kindly approach to judgment. Never jump to conclusions about matters so detached from you.
And for all with tact and a sense of respect, YOU CAN EAT CAKE.
here’s what I see:
part of the reason Deadheads chose to support the dead over the years was the attitude of the band towards taping. Fans knew that their concert tickets were buying them both the show and the ability to record and trade it. The money spent was a sort of an investment package, so after 40 years, the long term investors in the Grateful Dead organism are displeased, as one would be who paid for anything that didn’t serve according to his expectations.
then there’s the other side- they’re not actually limiting the trade of sound board recordings, they’re just trying to take advantage of the huge trend in music trading so they can support themselves, their families, and their concerns (which, if a fan is such a fan for so long, are likely to be similar in scope to the concerns of the fan.)
While the band draws funding from, say new listeners, the long term investors and people familiar with the system- loyal fans, can still trade via many other veins.
the band always received revenue from CD sales, and it is partly because of CD/record sales that the band was able to thrive. We have record evolve into=åÝtapes=>cds=>digital media- mp3’s etc. People won’t be walking to the store, they’ll buy music online, so to obtain business from the people who would typically buy records at the store, the band has to evolve, and what better way than to team up with itunes? Viva the Grateful Dead! You can still trade, it just takes a little bit more work to get the shows, and the little bit of effort will fund the band. If we love the band (I do,) don’t we want them to live comfortably.
Xian – listen to your words man-
you intent is powerful
-listen to your curse ‘pox on their houses’ and how you wish hell upon everyone but Phil
who are you, and why would someone like you have any interest in this band?
war war war
any fire-breathers please let rip on my words
After thinking a bit I still think it would be so much cooler if they would just set free all of their recordings- maybe if they get their finances figured out they will be able to open the gates again.
Remember, “The Music Never Stopped” but the touring did, thus the money. But let’s hope all the heart and soul is not dead
I got on the bus late in the tour but I think the Dead were\are an important avenue\slice\inspiration of not just americana or music but of history! The Daed cannot really be defined nor should they. I would like to make recordings of their live concerts so I can listen to them and pass them down “the line” for all to hear and enjoy. Please make them available for listening!!!